We are delving deeper into the mysteries of this game. We meet Eddie, learn Laura’s name, and then meet Maria. Maria is absolutely fascinating. She has the face of Cameron Diaz but the clothes of Christina Aguilera, so I mean right there you’ve got a whole episode worth to talk bout. Since Ave Maria means Hail Mary in Latin, I thought it was apt. Thanks for watching! Remember to click “like” and leave a comment, too!
Time Codes:
1. Intro (0:00)
2. Angela (0:42)
3.Pyramid Head (8:02)
4. Maria (22:28)
5. Eddie and Laura (37:19)
6. The Hospital (47:15)
7. Reunion With Maria(1:02:35)
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41 Comments
Correction: males see attractive females not as sex objects, but sex subjects. Please, go on 👂
1:03:20 I think the "jumping the line" (or jumping the camera axis) was purposefully made that way. In cinema it's a tool that sometimes it's being used to convey confusion and nervousness (or tension) between characters. In this case James response to Maria also conveys his confusion so i don't think it's a coincidence. Also in this scene the jumping the camera axis is being used more than once so it definitely isn't a "mistake".
Either way i absolutely love your analyses and can't wait for each episode!
Butterflies represent departed souls in Japan? Wow, all those butterflies that show up in Odin Sphere…
I never played downpour but I always thought Silent Hill 2 was by far the least scary of them.
Guess we won't find out about the psychological symbolism of "fart face"… XD
Casen does a deep dive that has me reappreciate the symbolism and everything in this game. The whole "He stared into the Abyss and it all started when he looked in the mirror" was great.
Well, Casen just pretty much figured out the whole game by going through a third of it. He is the man
Fun Fact: You actually don't need to fight Red Pyramid Thing during that first "boss fight". You can, but it's not necessary. Shooting him just makes him leave faster, if you just hang around for a minute or two and avoid him, he'll just leave on his own. Combat in these games is by design made to be less effective than just running and that's why it was made easier to just avoid enemies and only engage with them when you need to. They also made it possible to beat the final boss by going into the room with zero ammunition and the boss will just suddenly drop dead.
For comparison's sake, Devil May Cry came out the same year as SH2 and if Team Silent wanted the player to be able to easily dispatch its character's demons they would have designed a more active combat system. Because if fighting your demons was this easy, then it takes away from the psychological reasons for them to be there to begin with. The jump in tech and budget from SH1 to SH2 was so big they purposely and specifically made the choice of limiting combat options.
The more I see you guys analyze one of my favorite horror games, and fully show that you guys actually get it, the more I'm sure Blooper Team's SH2 Remake will get everything completely wrong.
The concept and the atmosphere of silent hill is enough for me. I was home alone as a kid when I first saw the pyramid head scene.
It may not be scary but there is no way anyone is feeling comfortable or relaxed going through these areas.
I really love Maria's introduction in this section. Remember that the player is experiencing their own reaction to her, both as a character in the story and a game element. So while James wrestles with her presence, the player is curious about her. We never knew Mary after all, but we know she was important to James. So without even getting into Maria's flirtatious behavior, we're drawn to her. We've gotten to know James a bit, so we're curious about the woman who looks like his wife. We're eager for the story to progress as well, and this feels like an important development
But…she's a bad date. Sure she looks great and is always flirting, but she comes off more like a tease than a real romantic prospect. And she's bossy, and rude. The bowling alley is an important moment. She's throwing a tantrum by not going inside, but both James and the player want her close by. There's no telling if she'll still be there when we go back. But reuniting with her leads to more anxiety
Later she goes from being a bad date to being the worst escort (pun intended) mission on the PS2. She goes to sleep in some random room while we look for Laura, complicating the mission. I kept checking in on her, worried the game would kill her off. But we, or James, don't get a choice: she must be abandoned in order to progress. And later, James and the player are reprimanded for that action. Very cleverly, the game makes us resent Maria and yet we're stuck with her also against our will
You guys analyzing this game makes me realize how obvious the story is and makes me feel stupid for not seeing all the really blunt hints in the game
I thought the enemies, radio and atmosphere were super scary in a psychological sense. It gives a feeling of unease. I played this when I was 14 and then I killed every monster and made the game pretty hard later on. Back then no idea what survival horror game was and made the game way more special. Shattered memories is garbage, nothing is scary about that game, just repetitive sequences over and over again.
Hey guys, quick note while watching the video.
On Mike wondering if the game's monsters should be scarier or more threatening, I think Casen's reaction is the answer to it : they don't need to for first time players.
I first played the game when I was a teenager when it came out and I remember being so stressed by the encounters that I couldn't finish SH2.
It appears to me that the game is made to make you think you have to fight and that this particular mindset you put yourself in is the reflection of James'.
Maybe it allows the themes of the games to sneak in your mind unconsciously on a first playthrough. That way the feelings linger during the days after you experienced them and later, when attempting replaying it, the meaning of all the symbolism (the appearance of monsters, Maria's look and very existence, etc) all that resurface and forms a more coherent map of Silent Hill 2.
Side note : Mike, have you really taken a good look a the first 2-3shots of the teaser from the remake ? I don't want to hate on it before its release but… I do 😂😭
Now I go back to the video 😃
Another note on Mike's reaction for the camera 180 rule.
I'm pretty sure it was intentional from the director of the scene.
Remember James is really confused by the sudden reaction of Maria. Reaction that, as you mentioned, completely contradicts with the fact that she asked us to leave her rest for a while.
James is literally cornered by Maria's attitude towards him and it's highlighted by the framing of the shot where James' face is almost touching the left side of the screen. It gives the sensation he's not in control. Like he's imprisoned.
CGI where so expensive at the time. Especially time consuming and hard to produce at this quality level. We've already seen many instances where the 180 rule were perfectly used in this game.
I may be wrong of course but I would assume it's not a mistake. Kinda like when Scorsese does that in his movies ^^
Heh, I’ve already shared my thoughts on a Silent Hill 2 Remake with a lengthy comment that’s probably full of redundancies in the first podcast, so I won’t reiterate those thoughts here.
What I will say, in regard to the combat, is that all survival horrors become somewhat repetitive and lose their scariness in that sense. But for me, SH2 is more about the oppressive atmosphere. I’ve only played it a couple times, but for me it really had that quality akin to those ceremonies where people would go underground in ritual to replicate a feeling of going deep into one’s mind. And then you come out the other end, not reborn necessarily because that’s a strong word, but certainly something closer to cleansed? It don’t cure me of depression but stuff like SH2 helps me face it and walk away a little better.
Oh and the scene where Maria blows up in James’ face and he takes it without word, accepting the hug? It’s a thing. I mean, reasons for it within the context of the story come up but that dynamic? Sadly it’s a thing where partners will put up with a wild mood swing if it means gaining the affection back later. In a strange way, it reminds me of the relationship between Miles Teller and J.K. Simmons in Whiplash
Loving the analysis! I have only watched others play this game and it's always so interesting to experience it again.
I have a question though! At the end Casen was focusing on the rings for the door and I thought he was going to bring up something that I noticed but he didn't, so I'll just ask: the fact that after the door "puzzle" we get Maria's arm stuck in the elevator's doors and the chance to see up close her hand and rings too, does have that any symbolism to it? Was there the gold ring Casen was talking about? I couldn't really tell from the footage but maybe there was something to it.
Anyway, I can't wait for the next part!
1:12:20 – JFC. This man is an analysis GOD lmao
Whats up with the thumbnail on this one? Almost glossed over the video not recognizing it 😅
The Adam Kovic and Mark Zuckerberg show lmao
It's been a long time since I played this so listening along has been quite interesting. I was aware of the projection element of it all but i was able to really place how Eddie or Laura really fit into this or what those projections meant or symbolised. If Eddie is selfish and only concerned with himself is a projection of James, I wonder whether Laura is a projection of a possible future lost because Mary is dead. This is potentially why Maria feels compelled to make sure she is safe. Very much headcannon and very high level and probably quickly debunkable but there's my two cents! 🙂
I always figured the part with the door, she was lock picking the lock. While getting different "tools" from different parts of her bodies.
I didn't mind the easy and non-scary combat. Seems like almost all games with great storytelling or worldbuilding have complete trash action anyway so I'm used to it. My mindset for them is more like me listening to music or reading a great novel while someone is throwing tiny rocks at me. The JRPG random encounters and battle systems and the Souls-like artificial difficulty of super slow unresponsive timing-memorizing combat are the most lame things ever put into a game, so I skip them and run away as much as possible.
It also makes sense in the narrative that the monsters would be harmless and look like they're sick and in a lot of pain while you're just there to finish them off. This is because SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER James' guilt over what he did makes him feel like a monster. The monsters are probably all pictures of his weakness. The skin guys are him in a straitjacket because he probably ultimately got institutionalized, the bobble-head sexy nurses whose face you can't look at represent his lust for the nurses in the hospital when visiting his wife, etc.
I think (personally) that´s why SH 3 is a better "game", in terms of story elements and gameplay as a complete package, I hope they cover 1 and 3 (they are very overshadowed by SH2)
I love the voice-acting in Silent Hill 2. As Casen mentioned, it feels so uncanny and gives such a dream-like, surreal feeling to it. My favorite voice-acting in general however is in Umineko. You guys absolutely should play it.
Hey guys thanks for doing videos on this wonderful game. Also there's something that you all missed at Heaven's Night. I'm going to talk about very important details about James' past, but I promise this is NOT A SPOILER. If you inspect a specific box of liquor, he will say:
"I don't need that right now. It's not that I don't drink. In fact, I drink a fair bit…To get away from the pain, the lonliness…But the drinking never changes anything…Anyway, I don't need it now. There's something that I have to do."
It's easily the most missable information in the whole game. It's only a one time thing. If you try inspecting it again, he'll only say something like "nothing of interest here". So you have to be extremely careful and not button mash. It makes me think that once he's done saying that and doesn't say it again, he goes back to repressing any memory of having problems with alcohol.
Also I believe it's connected to the message "There was a hole here. It's gone now." Since it's at Neely's Bar, I believe it's referring to a watering hole. It's basically a slang term that originated in the 60's for a bar/pub.
With all of that in mind, I truly believe that he actually did go to bars and drank all the time to cope with everything. So when he sees that message at Neely's Bar, I think it's saying that he has nowhere to run and can't look to alcohol to solve his problems. He has to move forward. Even if it means facing your worst fears.
Edit: Also go back to Neely's Bar after the hospital to see a new message left there on the wall. You can't go back there once you go to the Historical Society and Prison.
This discussion on Silent Hill 2 is incredible! It’s already better than Twin Perfect’s series that was done 10 years ago.
I will definitely have to agree that out of all the horror games I have played, Silent Hill 2 has the least threatening enemy encounters. There's a few factors playing into this in my mind. First, very likely by design as I am sure we will found out in the last episode when you go over them, their movement is quite restricted and a lot of them simply won't be coming at you very fast. They also have no way of preventing you from running past them – this is probably the biggest factor for me personally. Furthermore they cannot follow you through doors which means as soon as you are able to interact with a door, you're instantly safe. It's very hard to be afraid of anything that cannot really prevent you from running around it in circles.
Even if you choose to fight, it is way easier than in it was in Silent Hill 1. They removed the tank controls so you can easily strafe and move backwards making your melee much more effective, allowing you to save ammunition for the few moments where enemies would be threatening. But judging from the atmosphere – like the lack of the hellscape we enter in SH1 and SH3 – they were not going for threatening anyway. I don't necessarily hold it against the game, but the fact that running past everything is a much better way to play does eat at the atmosphere of trying to progress carefully and slowly in a hostile environment.
My personal champion for a series where encounters feel threatening is Project Zero (Fatal Frame in the US). The fact that you have to stare down a camera lens to fight is limiting, and also makes you look at what you are fighting very closely. There is also definitely quite a lot going on with butterflies in that series…
"if I wanted to take a stab at this" nice pun casen LOL
The elevator scene has a subtle aspect to it in that when James is trying to get the doors open to let Maria in, the camera is behind his shoulder and you can't see the walls. It's a wider, more open view as the action is happening. There's still some hope James might save her. After the doors close, it goes back to the default view and you're alone, inside that small, square elevator with the walls very close (closing in?) – a quick gameplay, as well as emotional, shift.
In my opinion, the constant threat of "death" isn't what makes a game scary- as y'all mentioned, dark souls is an embodiment of that, but it's not even horror. The "fear" of dying is stressful and causes tension, sure, but I feel like silent hill grabs more of that fear of the unknown.
You might not be constantly stressed, but this place is unimaginable. It's clear that you've been drawn here, but to what end? These creatures are clearly real and dangerous, but there's no explanation to them. No parasite or virus, no external confirmation that they even exist. You're cut off from the world, but there are other people here that are seeing different things, for different reasons. A lot of the fear comes from the fear of isolation, of loss of self, of unimportance. The creatures in silent hill treat you as almost an afterthought, and there's no way out but forward. But if you're an afterthought, is forward even a way out?
Casen is so sharp at catching all the themes and references while playing the game. Reading into the story with a Jungian frame of mind was so on point for this game in specific as well.
I don't feel SH2 in general is scary in the traditional sense. I more feel that the series focuses more on the psychological horror spectrum of the horror genre than say the horror of say outlast or other similar games (though I find those games more annoying rather than scary). I feel that SH1 and 3 are a bit more traditional on the horror spectrum. I am someone who prefers psychological horror in general, so the mental issues that the characters have and the more personal aspect of James's story, I feel is a lot more effective overall, due to the general lack of supernatural entities, and less dangerous enemies helps sell that better, and make the game less annoying personally.
Difficulty would certainly make the game a lot more scarier and in my opinion far more enjoyable.
I first played SH3 as a teen and it scared the living hell out of me. I would play it in my room in pitch black darkness and would get so freaked out I had to come out every now and then to normalize my stress levels, but this is what made it so memorable for me.
Playing SH2(on normal) as an adult was more like a mystery puzzle game, as the game was too easy to get any feelings of dread. So, I replayed SH3 thinking maybe it was just teen me that got scared but the game really is a lot more difficult compared to SH2 and I would still get freaked out and for the first time in many years felt fear from a source of entertainment. The element of having far less ammo and the threat of death present makes the game a whole other thing.
Playing SH2 on hard makes it a challenge, not a big one but still a lot better than just dumping ammo on enemies, but it's hard to judge since I already know the game and it makes it far less creepy and unpredictable.
Great analysis but maybe calm down with "seeing connections that aren't really there" parts. xP
I love the discussion on what makes a good horror game, or rather what instills horror in the player.
I don't really know if it was after RE4, but that franchise as a whole gets a lot of flack (imho) for not being scary enough, when in actuality anyone who's played the first installments knows how nerve-wracking they are, especially in the higher difficulties.
REmake, in that regard, is THE survival horror, taking the concept (which Capcom kinda coined) and elevating it to its epitome.
I swear, if you want to make the best plot twist in media ever… have someone cough a few times, then have another character point out that they’re coughing and here’s the twist… they’re actually fine and they’re not deathly ill. They were just coughing cause sometimes people cough. Like maybe they actually did just get dust in their throat. Or they do really just have a little cold.
Was Mike at the game awards or am I crazy?? Right as Kojima walks on stage?!?!
Full disclosure, I haven't played the games in years, but I think SH3 kind of found the balance that SH2 didn't have. The monsters were scary to face and there also was enough of them to where they actually posed a threat. In that game I always kind of felt like I needed to watch what I was doing and make decisions on the fly. In SH2 it really was like "okay, here's another one I can just bash with my hammer" and then you just go about your business.
I always felt like the environments and the setting in SH2 were especially scary and creepy, but the actual gameplay and progressing in the game wasn't.
Just kind of funny because it seems like 3 isn't that well received when compared to 2.
This podcast is criminally underrated.
1:14 :00 Even more telling is how the Nietzsche quote begins. It starts with "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster"
Amazing. Thanks so much!