People keep telling me that Star's reaction didn't make sense and he's being unreasonable, but considering they were longtime friends + apparently he had a crush on her + she JUST died, I think it makes sense for him to..not handle it very well. Also who's to say Starlo won't regret saying that to Clover?
I am not defending Starlo or making excuses for the way he treats Clover like complete trash if they kill Ceroba as that was still very much unjustified, but at the same time I can kinda see why he'd be so angry. Ceroba is someone he's been close friends with ever since they were kids. They grew up together and were a big part of each other's lives, to the point Starlo once upon a time had romantic feelings for her but never got to follow through on them. Also, up till now, Clover had managed to resolve almost every conflict peacefully, including the fight with Starlo where he was basically trying to do exactly what Ceroba was doing, and yet Clover let him live despite having every reason to gun him down.
My guess is Starlo felt betrayed as he likely thought Clover would find a way to stop Ceroba non-lethally(granted, that shouldn't have been Clover's responsibility but I digress) and then they could all talk her down, like they did with him, but instead, Clover executed her. In his mind he's probably thinking "wait, so when I try to take your Soul for my own selfish purposes, I get to live? But when Ceroba wants your Soul just so she can save her daughter that means she deserves death? What made her so undeserving of mercy?! You realize on the off chance Kanako is still alive, you just deprived her of her mother?!"
Granted, Starlo is clearly letting emotions cloud his judgement in this moment, which makes sense as he wasn't awake to see just how insane Ceroba was really acting plus he's just lost one of his dearest friends to somebody he thought he could trust. (and whom he's known for not even a fraction of the time he's known Ceroba)
I highly doubt many of us would be thinking straight in such a situation, but he's still a man capable of owning up to when he's wrong so I'd like to think once he's had a chance to clear his mind and vent all his emotions he would realize the way he treated Clover was downright cruel…it's just too bad he won't get that chance to apologize.
I like how a human SOUL is literally one of the most powerful things in the world and it’s contained in a glass jar spasgore probably bought for 3.99 g off of the internet.
I honestly think that Clover killing Ceroba wasn’t in the name of justice or self defense, but instead being in the name of mercy. She was suffering horribly from the trauma and bad memories of her circumstances, and though keeping her alive would’ve been the best outcome in the long run, ending her suffering still came from good intentions on Clover’s part.
So that's how you fight Asgore without initiating the Genocide Route. I always wondered where "Final Encounter" played. AKA the variant of "ASGORE" found in the OST.
Looking at it. I feel like this might be the “canon” ending. It has the best explanation on what happened to everyone. Ceroba is dead, and starlo/ martlet likely went into self inflicted hiding or solitude.
Not too sure why so many people think that Clover kills her out of some sense of justice, it is quite literally because Ceroba begs them to? It's assisted suicide, a mercy killing, not "I'm killing you because this is right", unless the player sees it that way, but I don't think that's how the canon portrays it at all.
She asked for it. Quite literally. Starlo wanted a better end for her, and now he's a broken man. Martlet stood up for Clover, knowing they were in the right, yet now she knows her only remaining true friend is dead. And Clover now bears the weight of killing a once loving and compassionate mother who lost it all, falling into a state of depression. It's a no-win situation for anyone.
I think you don't gain xp from Ceroba because she wanted the death, the kill was not for a purpose to gain strength or for the sake of killing but cause it was her wish.
"What did she do to deserve this" Bro, she tried to kill a child and she nearly killed Martlet too did you see how close to falling off that tower she was? Like, I didn't want to kill her (hence why I'm watching this instead of playing it) but she didn't not deserve it. Plus she literally asked for it and, even if she didn't, for all he knows Clover killed her in self defense.
Monsters are made out of hopes and dreams. But it's never a good thing, you can hope or dream to whether help someone whether kill someone. As for me, I guess the Asgore and Ceroba share bad side of this "Hopes and Dreams". They beg to back on surface, not even thinking about "Hey, we already have our homes here, we haven't on surface for ever… Why do we need it?", personally, i guess that sacrifice of Clover is injustice, if I'd be on place of Clover I'd never gave my soul to potential killers, as we know from some of neutral endings of OG Undertale, Asgore been planning a full-on invasion on humanity. It's all injustice, but the thing is… I'm not on the place of Clover, nor Ceroba, nor Asgore.
Judgment is objective truth while Justice is subjective. After seeing what monsters past trough for just a change to get on surface, I can understand clover's decision. And as we see on contrast of Starlo and Martlet, as Martlet refer to "law" and "judgement", Star though only of his justice. And his justice is, the fact that he lost his best friend, that just was too much into the mad ideas of Chujin and made few flaws in past. As for me. I didn't killed Ceroba only 'cos of her apology, I personally have much guts to forgive people, especially if they close to me(Steamworks part). While I play UT and UTY I always tried to do things "I" consider as right, and I go on not Judgement but Justice way on her. As I said, If I'd be on place of clover I would never gave my soul, I'd go to barrier, kill Asgore, and Underground would turn into anarchy, no hopes, no dreams, nothing.
But It'd be mine choice, as well as Clover chose to sacrifice himself, it's their choice, and i have no right to judge 'em. Since, as i said, "Judgment is objective truth while Justice is subjective" and Clover isn't an object, instead, subject.
Firstly, I was really mad at ending like "WHAT?!? I'M GODDAMN PLAYER WHY THIS DAMN PAWN CHOSE TO—" then I realise one thing… Who am I in this story?(Chara perhaps), It's not story of "Cool-ass Unknown from M.E Savage Roma that fall into underground", expect of Undertale, where frisk has no traits nor background. There, you aren't determinate, but one to be under determination, you aren't protagonist, but Clover is, and he made, ma-a-a-aybe in long run stupid thing, but yet, it's their choice, their JUSTICE, not mine, nor your's.
Undertale characters forget they're adults talking to a child more often than a discord moderator. Like… starlo you tried to shoot a random child to death in the pacifist route for literally 0 reason whatsoever.
It's kind of eerie that asgore invented the handbook as a way to make his guards kill the fallen humans so he doesn't have to. I wonder if he still gains LV when it happens though.
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So attractive
3:08
Now go back and kill the other monsters
This is called the flawed pacifist
JOJO PHANTOM BLOOD REFERENCE!!!
People keep telling me that Star's reaction didn't make sense and he's being unreasonable, but considering they were longtime friends + apparently he had a crush on her + she JUST died, I think it makes sense for him to..not handle it very well. Also who's to say Starlo won't regret saying that to Clover?
Apparently ceroba's staff Is Part of her body Because It turned into dust just like her
You use a lot of big shots
Spamton would be proud
that damn discord notification
This also made me realize that the previous human's armor you can find is just because they were changing their gear
I am not defending Starlo or making excuses for the way he treats Clover like complete trash if they kill Ceroba as that was still very much unjustified, but at the same time I can kinda see why he'd be so angry. Ceroba is someone he's been close friends with ever since they were kids. They grew up together and were a big part of each other's lives, to the point Starlo once upon a time had romantic feelings for her but never got to follow through on them. Also, up till now, Clover had managed to resolve almost every conflict peacefully, including the fight with Starlo where he was basically trying to do exactly what Ceroba was doing, and yet Clover let him live despite having every reason to gun him down.
My guess is Starlo felt betrayed as he likely thought Clover would find a way to stop Ceroba non-lethally(granted, that shouldn't have been Clover's responsibility but I digress) and then they could all talk her down, like they did with him, but instead, Clover executed her. In his mind he's probably thinking "wait, so when I try to take your Soul for my own selfish purposes, I get to live? But when Ceroba wants your Soul just so she can save her daughter that means she deserves death? What made her so undeserving of mercy?! You realize on the off chance Kanako is still alive, you just deprived her of her mother?!"
Granted, Starlo is clearly letting emotions cloud his judgement in this moment, which makes sense as he wasn't awake to see just how insane Ceroba was really acting plus he's just lost one of his dearest friends to somebody he thought he could trust. (and whom he's known for not even a fraction of the time he's known Ceroba)
I highly doubt many of us would be thinking straight in such a situation, but he's still a man capable of owning up to when he's wrong so I'd like to think once he's had a chance to clear his mind and vent all his emotions he would realize the way he treated Clover was downright cruel…it's just too bad he won't get that chance to apologize.
I like how a human SOUL is literally one of the most powerful things in the world and it’s contained in a glass jar spasgore probably bought for 3.99 g off of the internet.
bro starlo really said what did ceroba do to deseve thes
I honestly think that Clover killing Ceroba wasn’t in the name of justice or self defense, but instead being in the name of mercy. She was suffering horribly from the trauma and bad memories of her circumstances, and though keeping her alive would’ve been the best outcome in the long run, ending her suffering still came from good intentions on Clover’s part.
So that's how you fight Asgore without initiating the Genocide Route. I always wondered where "Final Encounter" played. AKA the variant of "ASGORE" found in the OST.
Looking at it. I feel like this might be the “canon” ending. It has the best explanation on what happened to everyone. Ceroba is dead, and starlo/ martlet likely went into self inflicted hiding or solitude.
Not too sure why so many people think that Clover kills her out of some sense of justice, it is quite literally because Ceroba begs them to? It's assisted suicide, a mercy killing, not "I'm killing you because this is right", unless the player sees it that way, but I don't think that's how the canon portrays it at all.
She asked for it. Quite literally. Starlo wanted a better end for her, and now he's a broken man. Martlet stood up for Clover, knowing they were in the right, yet now she knows her only remaining true friend is dead. And Clover now bears the weight of killing a once loving and compassionate mother who lost it all, falling into a state of depression. It's a no-win situation for anyone.
What if you miss the shot when you kill Ceroba💀
Since LOVE or LV is stood for Level Of ViolencE so killing cobera isn't violence unlike in genocide
Kinda interesting fact
undertale fan games be like “yeah it’s totally balanced”
I died a lot to Ceroba in every phase ….
Whole underground attacks a child: its fine
the human uses self defense once: you MONSTER!
What if you miss the shot tho?
I think you don't gain xp from Ceroba because she wanted the death, the kill was not for a purpose to gain strength or for the sake of killing but cause it was her wish.
"What did she do to deserve this"
Bro, she tried to kill a child and she nearly killed Martlet too did you see how close to falling off that tower she was?
Like, I didn't want to kill her (hence why I'm watching this instead of playing it) but she didn't not deserve it. Plus she literally asked for it and, even if she didn't, for all he knows Clover killed her in self defense.
Monsters are made out of hopes and dreams. But it's never a good thing, you can hope or dream to whether help someone whether kill someone.
As for me, I guess the Asgore and Ceroba share bad side of this "Hopes and Dreams". They beg to back on surface, not even thinking about "Hey, we already have our homes here, we haven't on surface for ever… Why do we need it?", personally, i guess that sacrifice of Clover is injustice, if I'd be on place of Clover I'd never gave my soul to potential killers, as we know from some of neutral endings of OG Undertale, Asgore been planning a full-on invasion on humanity. It's all injustice, but the thing is… I'm not on the place of Clover, nor Ceroba, nor Asgore.
Judgment is objective truth while Justice is subjective. After seeing what monsters past trough for just a change to get on surface, I can understand clover's decision. And as we see on contrast of Starlo and Martlet, as Martlet refer to "law" and "judgement", Star though only of his justice. And his justice is, the fact that he lost his best friend, that just was too much into the mad ideas of Chujin and made few flaws in past.
As for me. I didn't killed Ceroba only 'cos of her apology, I personally have much guts to forgive people, especially if they close to me(Steamworks part). While I play UT and UTY I always tried to do things "I" consider as right, and I go on not Judgement but Justice way on her. As I said, If I'd be on place of clover I would never gave my soul, I'd go to barrier, kill Asgore, and Underground would turn into anarchy, no hopes, no dreams, nothing.
But It'd be mine choice, as well as Clover chose to sacrifice himself, it's their choice, and i have no right to judge 'em. Since, as i said, "Judgment is objective truth while Justice is subjective" and Clover isn't an object, instead, subject.
Firstly, I was really mad at ending like "WHAT?!? I'M GODDAMN PLAYER WHY THIS DAMN PAWN CHOSE TO—" then I realise one thing… Who am I in this story?(Chara perhaps), It's not story of "Cool-ass Unknown from M.E Savage Roma that fall into underground", expect of Undertale, where frisk has no traits nor background. There, you aren't determinate, but one to be under determination, you aren't protagonist, but Clover is, and he made, ma-a-a-aybe in long run stupid thing, but yet, it's their choice, their JUSTICE, not mine, nor your's.
What if you miss your shot? unless you can't control it.
Undertale characters forget they're adults talking to a child more often than a discord moderator.
Like… starlo you tried to shoot a random child to death in the pacifist route for literally 0 reason whatsoever.
It's kind of eerie that asgore invented the handbook as a way to make his guards kill the fallen humans so he doesn't have to.
I wonder if he still gains LV when it happens though.
How mobile players gonna dodge 💀
I really didn't like this ending when i unlocked it
3:08