Now the Fun Begins! Dreaming and Scheming Future Garden Plans | 156

Summer is winding down, cool mornings are rolling in, and now is the time to dream and scheme plans for your garden. Rick and Stacey discuss design ideas, garden tasks, and ways to prepare for your fall to-do list.

For more information on KODIAK® Red 2.0 Diervilla, visit https://www.provenwinnerscolorchoice.com/product/kodiak-red-2-diervilla/

To see more on the Gardening Simplified Show, visit https://gardeningsimplifiedonair.com/

References used in this video:
https://www.noaa.gov/education/multimedia/infographic/infographic-meteorological-and-astronomical-seasons

Fall planting FAQ

https://www.provenwinners.com/learn/planting/why-plant-fall
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-creativity-cure/201404/rearranging-the-furniture-makes-me-feel-better-2
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/euonymus-alatus/
https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/euonymus-atropurpureus/
https://www.thirdmindbooks.com/pages/books/6570/doris-kearns-goodwin/wait-till-next-year-a-memoir

Negative Space as a Landscape Design Element | Vol.1

[Music] Broadcasting from historic studio A here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. It’s the Gardening Simplified show with Stacy Hervella, me, Rick Veist, and our engineer and producer Adriana Robinson. Okay, now the fun begins. Cooler temperatures, little more precipitation as we head into fall. I was reading the other day the optimum temperature for human beings. they say is between 20 and 25° C, about 68 to 77° F. We get a lot of that kind of weather in fall. Perfect for plants and people. I get very nostalgic in fall. I think it’s because I love summer so much. Uh, as a matter of fact, for our YouTube viewers, got a picture of um a cold front coming in near my house by the lighthouse. Uh, just a couple days ago, Stacy, all of a sudden, the temperatures feel cooler. It feels like fall is in the air. And you know, the crazy thing to me is that even though the temperatures are feeling a little bit cooler, the light has changed so much. The light in the sky, it’s just so different. And you can just even if it’s, you know, 80° out there, it still feels like it is here. Even though, well, technically, I suppose meteorological fall starts tomorrow, but astronomical fall, we still got three more weeks of summer, so take your pick, whatever you prefer. Astronomical fall. Well, and I I hear pumpkin spice uh season is back as well, so that is another sure sign of fall if you’re not paying attention to the temperatures. It doesn’t get any bigger than this. Your landscape that is. So, it’s that time of the year when it’s a good time to get out there, take a look at your landscape, and decide on changes that you want to make. Make some notes. You know, it can be difficult moving a plant or putting a new plant in the ground. But making lists is really easy and you can prioritize based on your budget, your time, your energy uh later on. So, this is the time of year, and that’s why I say it’s a fun time of the year for me. Um, I consider myself plant. I’m making a list, checking it twice. And for me here in Michigan, now it be different for everybody else, but for me, I like to do that planning in late August, early to midepptember, and then from midepptember to Thanksgiving day, take action. cutting stuff back, moving stuff, putting bargains in the ground. I just love it. It’s so much fun. And a great way to do that is through bubble drawings, just sketches on a legal pad. As a matter of fact, I was out there the other day with my legal pad, just sketching some stuff up. Got some pictures for you here on YouTube. Just rough sketches. You can take your phone, take pictures, too. And uh I think the key is not to worry about the actual plants or shapes yet that are going to go into the landscape, but it’s a time for spatial planning. And that type of planning is fun. As a matter of fact, if I was a young man again, not an old retired man, but a young man again, I would go to school to either become a meteorologist or a spatial designer because I think that’s the coolest job in the world where you look at an environment and you try to make it friendly to people and uh really make great use of the space. Uh, so as opposed to landscape design, Stacy, spatial design at this time of the year, I find it a kick in the plants. I have to say, I think this may go back to your garden center days. Yes, it does. It does. It’s a dreaming and scheming time of the year. Yeah, for sure. And you know, we talked about this a bit in the last couple shows, but what to me is so exciting uh about this particular time is that you’re seeing how things actually behave. And I’ve talked about this before, but like when spring comes, you know, everything’s little and you know, even if you made a note to yourself like, “Reduce your amount of sulfium, Stacy, please.” By the time spring comes, you’re just like, “Oh, everything’s so fresh and green.” And you know, you forget the further you get away from the peak of the season, correct? The more you forget about, you know, what actually happens come August. Uh, and then you don’t trust yourself and you don’t want to do it cuz you’re just like, it looks so pretty. I don’t want to do it. Whereas, if you do it in fall, you know, no problems, right? And then you you remember and you you act on information rather than questioning your summer self. And that’s what I found is I was like, I should have trusted summer Stacy. She knew what was up. That’s right. Spring Stacy, she didn’t remember what Summer Stacy knew. And now’s the time. Exactly. And you know, for me, half the fun of doing something is anticipation. If you’re going to go on a vacation or you’re you’re dreaming and scheming about this beautiful patio area or whatever, half the fun is uh anticipation. And that is uh supported uh by stuff that I read uh from psychologists who say the same thing that it’s the anticipation that uh that is the fun. But we’re either moving forward or backwards. Nothing ever stays the same. And rearranging and moving plants in your landscape is easy on paper and in your mind. not so easy physically, but now’s the time to be doing that because come October, um, I will be all business. So, the time is now. The lesson is learned. I think about Jimmy Buffett. I love Jimmy Buffett’s music. And he’s got this song where he buys a watch from a guy floating down the canal. He says, “It doesn’t use numbers or moving hands. It always just says,”Now.” Now, you may be thinking that I was had, but this watch is never wrong. And if I had trouble, the warranty said, “Breathe in, breathe out, move on.” This is a great time of the year to breathe in, breathe out, and move on. Move on from your mistakes or move on to correct your mistakes. I’m wondering. Okay. All right. Anticipation. Well, you know, I think a big part of that though is is identifying what needs to be done. And I think for a lot of people, myself included, you know, you’re looking at your garden and maybe something is like flopping or taking over, needs management, isn’t working for you, it’s it is a habit to develop to acknowledge to recognize those things and translate that into action rather than just go, uh, you know, I really wish I hadn’t planted that. Okay, well, now is the time to remedy that. Right? So, you do need to take that opportunity to kind of reconcile your thoughts about what’s happening in the garden or landscape with taking action because now really is one of the best times to take action. And you know, every year people, we answer questions about lawns. We answer questions about dividing. And we always say fall. Well, now it’s fall. Yeah. Now’s the time. like Jimmy Buffett said, and I was reading an article in Psychology Today and it was talking about the fact that moving your furniture around can actually make you feel better. And so I would ask the question, how often does the typical person rearrange furniture in their house? Aside from the deep cleaning that you’re going to get, you feel better about the space, maybe unclutter the room. Uh and so they were recommending to move furniture around uh often again in something that’s much easier as an idea than to physically do. But again, it’s all about spatial design. And this is the time of year like Stacy said, you know, you’ve maybe some of those plants are really crowding each other out or maybe there’s a plant that needs to get the boot. Yeah. And there’s nothing wrong with that. And you can and you can give it to a friend and you don’t have to feel bad at all. They’re going to be excited. Yeah, that’s exactly it. I mean, you’ve lived in your landscape all summer. Now we head towards fall. Good time to take a look at spatial design. So functional, immersive, uh just relevant type uh human environment for you to be able to uh to enjoy your landscape. So spatial design is a conceptual discipline that prioritize both style and function. So we’re looking at spaces, we’re looking at rooms, we’re looking at concept drawings. You don’t have to be an artist. You don’t have to be an architect or a designer. If you have a legal pad and a pen, uh you can do it. And the best place to start with a plan is a bubble diagram. you can organize your spaces without a lot of detail, without a lot of drawing uh investment. I guess it’s Stacy just a functional diagram. It is and it’s easy to do. Yeah. You don’t need any special kind of uh you know skills to be able to do it. It’s just a way of thinking about the space in your yard on paper rather than in person. And we’ll talk more about this in segment four. Let me give you a limb a Rick to get this going. Take pride in your landscape creation and plan changes with notation. While busy making progress, we all would have to confess half the funds the anticipation. With your space be a creative pioneer, your vantage point belvier, this past year’s been great, but can’t help contemplate what would it be like next year. Oo, love that. So true. Wait till next year. Let’s see how Stacy ties this in with plants on Trial here on the Gardening Simplified show. Greetings gardening friends and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified show where the order of the day is now the fun begins referring to our opportunities to improve our gardens in fall. Enrique at the end of the previous segment you used in your limmerick a word belvier. Yes. Do you know what that means? Yes. A Belvadier would be like, isn’t it a a vantage point, a a position that you have kind of a a I don’t know, a a little building or whatever where you sit there and you can view over an area. Well, so it literally means in Italian, beautiful view. There you go. Beautiful view. Yes. So, yes, a Belvadier would be a small place to take in a beautiful view, but it the literal meaning is beautiful view. I stuck it in there because it rhymed. All right. Well, that’s a rare opportunity. If you can rhyme with Belvadier, you’re welcome here. Uh oh, very good. Stacy, you’re hot today. I guess I am. And speaking of being hot, I’m kicking off Plants on Trial with another one of my horicultural hot takes. Here it comes. Here it comes. Uh, burning bush is a boring plant and you shouldn’t plant it. Controversy. And and if you have one, now would be a great time to remove it. Now, okay, hear me out. Send your cards, letters, emails. Care of Stacy Hervella. Yes, exactly. What’s next? Dillies and Marolds. Now, that’s different. That’s different because dillies are a not invasive. And burning bush is very invasive. Yes, it’s true. And B, dillies are, you know, they’re just like a little thing. They’re not they don’t take up a lot of space. But hear me out. If you I Hey, I agree with you. I’m not disagreeing at all. I agree with your hot take. Well, good. I’m glad. And I think Adriana agrees with this hot take as well. But if you do not, if you’re sitting there a gasast and clutching your pearls, please do hear me out. Um, it’s a horicultural one-trick pony. you know, like all it does is have fall color and that’s cool and it is, I will admit, pretty great fall color, but like a ton of stuff has really really great fall color. And, you know, for me, maybe it’s part of having a smaller space to to work in. Um, but I’m not looking for a one-trick pony, and I certainly don’t want a one-trick pony that is also invasive to boot. So, um, it doesn’t have particularly attractive or interesting flowers. In fact, most people probably think that burning bush doesn’t even bloom because the little green flowers are not particularly showy. Um, and they turn into fruits, which can be kind of interesting. And if you look up burning bush fruits on the internet, you’ll be like, “Oh, actually, those are kind of great.” But in real life, they don’t actually look as spectacular as they do. They’re not as as interesting. And if the fruit is what interests you about burning bush, there are some fabulous native yuanimus that get even better fruit. So, consider those. But I don’t think most people are growing burning bush for the fruit. Um, it’s a big plant, you know, it’s it’s pretty big. Um, and you know, all of that together, it’s not deer resistant. It’s not not drought tolerant. It’s rabbit food. It’s rabbit food and deer food. And yeah, and it’s invasive. And in some places, it’s extremely invasive. over here. Not too bad because of our dry soil, but you know, certainly anywhere on the east coast. You can’t hike into a woods without finding burning bush popping up everywhere. And that’s pretty depressing. So, one trick pony has all it really does is have fall color. And even though it is good fall color, like everything else also has really good fall color at that time. To me, the most interesting thing about burning bush is the winged bark. Yes, they call it winged wahoo. Yes. Such a great name. um because the bark does grow these kind of quirky uh wings on it and that’s kind of cool. But all told, I mean, come on, let’s just face it, we can do better than burning bush. And so this fall as we sit around thinking about the changes that we’re going to make in our garden. If you have a burning bush, I think it would be a good time to consider replacing it. And I have a replacement suggestion for you. It is today’s plant on trial and it is Kodiak Red 2.0 Derilla. Perfect. Perfect. Love the plant. So, if you’re not familiar with Derilla, it is a North American native shrub. Uh you can certainly see it abundantly here in Michigan, especially as you go a little bit further up north, but it grows all over basically the entire US east of the Mississippi. And um as you might be able to guess by the name Kodiak Red, it has red fall color. Now, I will admit it’s not going to be quite as vivid as that of a burning bush, but again, hear me out. I think that what it gives you in exchange more than makes up for that difference in color because it is native. Okay? So, not invasive compared to the burning bush. In the summer, it has uh great yellow flowers, tons of yellow flowers all season long that attract native bumblebees and other pollinators. During the season, the foliage is much more interesting because it comes out and emerges in colors of tones of red. So, you have that red color on the foliage throughout the season as the plant is growing rather than just waiting for it to, you know, do something. Absolutely. I have bees and pollinators all over mine in summer. Yeah. It is also uh very easy to grow and um you can trim it and prune it and shape it if you want to do that. And uh then yeah, of course, it lights up in fall. It is not super deer resistant, but it is certainly more deer resistant than a burning bush. Now, I’ve grown it uh in my yard. Dervilla, they will typically munch it a little bit in spring. So, kind of in that time frame when uh they’re hungry, they’ve exhausted all the food out in the woods and the derilla is starting to emerge and it’s got that nice tender soft growth. They’re like, “Okay, yeah, I’ll settle for this.” Um, but you know, ultimately they don’t damage it very much and it doesn’t impact the flowering because it flowers on new wood. So even if they do eat it a little bit in the spring, you’re still going to get the flowers, it’s not really going to impact the overall, you know, aesthetics of the plant. I agree. And I’d add to your list, Stacy, that when it turns color, the foliage remains on far longer than the foliage holds on a burning bush. Oh, yeah. That’s a great point. I didn’t even think about that, but you’re right. like burning bush lights up and then it’s like now I’m out, you know, a couple days later, Elvis has left the building and the foliage is dropping in color, which can look kind of cool to have that kind of carpet of of red leaves underneath the plant. I mean, I’m trying to be generous because I know people love this plant and it truly mystifies me why burning bush is so popular when it does so little in the landscape. And not only that, but something that people might not know from a nursery uh industry production standpoint, it’s not an easy plant to grow. It’s slow growing. It doesn’t like the nursery environment. Yet, somehow it has become a commodity that they’re able to offer super cheap. I don’t know how I don’t know how this happened. At garden centers, when it turns color, you can sell them like hot cakes. So, I guess that’s it. And but you sell them in the other part of the season because people are like, I want a burning bush because they remember, you know, it’s like and maybe it’s it’s a snappy name, easy to remember, burning bush. Uh, and that might be kind of fun. But Kodiak Red 2.0 makes a much better alternative. And we do have 2.0 in the name because it is an improvement on our original Kodiak Red Dervilla. So we have been selecting and actually when we selected Kodiak red it was specifically to serve as an alternate alternative to burning bush in areas where burning bush is banned because of its invasiveness. So a lot of that same kind of color um but without all of those liabilities. So the fall color on Kodiak Red 2.0 is way better even than the original Kodiak Red. So this makes a great choice for replacing the uh burning bush in your landscape. It’s also hardier. So, um, most burning bush there, you’re going to see some, um, squishiness between these numbers, but most burning bush is hardy zones 4 through 8 and typically does get winter damage in zone 4 and sometimes in zone 5 as well. Whereas the Kodiak Dilla hardy all the way down to USDA zone 3 and heat tolerant up to zone 8. So, you have a much wider range where you can grow this as well. So, I mean, I think this thing is win-winwin. But again, I know people do love their burning bush. So I do want to also mention if I have not convinced you to switch over to the Dervilla side uh that we do have a seedless non-invasive burning bush fireball seedless just because we know that we can’t convince people to stop planting burning bush for whatever reason. So if you do love your burning bush and you’re sitting there shaking your head and saying I’m never going to listen to the Gardening Simplified show again. Stacy and her hot takes are just making me too angry. I still have an option for you. Fireball seedless, sterile, non-invasive. It will be on the market uh next year in 2026 in Garden Center. So, that makes a much better alternative uh than regular burning bush. Although, again, I’m recommending today’s plant on trial, Kodiak Red 2.0. Wow. All this controversy. Burning bush, green flowers. When is it going to say green flowers? And we didn’t even bring it up in our our green flowers show last week. But anyway, there’s my two cents. I hope that you will consider adding Kodiak Red 2.0 to your landscape, whether you need to replace a burning bush or you’re just looking for some snazzy color in the landscape or a native shrub that’s also really colorful and interesting. So, we’re going to take a little break. When we come back, we’re opening up the garden mailbag. So, please stay tuned. [Music] Greetings gardening friends and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified show where I promise you I’m done with my horicultural hot takes. Uh if you are still here, thank you uh for listening through that. Um I don’t think I have any more for today, but I look forward to future weeks. I love your hot tips. Should do a whole segment of hot tips. Oh, I there’s plenty more where that came from, believe me. Uh, Adrian and I were starting to brainstorm a few today. So, so we could we could make this a regular thing. I’ve got some hot takes, too. So, let’s have I bet our listeners do as well. So, if you want to leave a comment on YouTube as to what your horicultural hottake is, we would love to hear it. Uh anyway, before we get to the mailbag where we answer your questions about what is going on in your garden right now or in the future, I did want to mention that we have a brand new video on YouTube and it is a tour of my garden and of Rick’s garden. Something that people have been asking for for some time. Uh and we finally got it for you. uh just a a peek at some of what’s going on and not what we’re going to be doing as uh now the fun begins, but uh what we’ve been seeing over the past couple of weeks. It’s a good update on my garden after all of the craziness that we did last year and a first look at Rick’s garden. Uh there’s been pictures, you know, in other episodes of the show, but no one’s really seen like your whole garden. Yeah. Working my way up the back dune. I would say I’m about 50% done uh and practicing what I preach as far as uh you know, now the fun begins because this fall and into winter, I have an east garden planned. I’m expanding the deer compound fence. Wow. And building that uh pergola this winter. So, I thought that uh one of the funniest things about the video after I watched my part and then I watched your vegetable garden, I was like, “Wow, Rick really aderes to proper spacing.” Um, and my my vegetable garden is uh not properly I thought you were going to comment on the dlies. Oh, that was funny. That’s I think a lot of our listeners are, you know, longtime listeners will know that of my dislike for dlies and the fact that I think that they resemble cloth diapers. Um, so Rick made a point of that in the video. Got a kick out of it and he made sure that I saw his uh collection of of dillies there in the garden. So, we’re going to start answering your gardening questions. We have some really good ones that I think are very timely. And if you want to reach us with your gardening question, you can leave a comment on YouTube or uh go to gardeningimplified onair.com and click the contact tab. What do we got? Uh, Jennifer writes with some spacing questions. I’m planting two blue chiffon rows of Sharons at work and I want them planted as close to the back edge as possible. How much space should they have away from the edge? Uh why don’t we start there? Okay. So, uh the simple equation here for spacing is you look at the range of width that a plant has and so in the case of uh Pliffon Rose of Sharon, I believe that’s 6 feet. You divide that in half and then you’re going to place the center that distance from the whatever obstacle, whatever line or obstacle structure, whatever you’re trying to work with. Uh so if you are trying to go as close as possible to the back edge like Jennifer is, I would go with a 3-foot. If you’re trying to, you know, give yourself plenty of room, like you need to walk by or something like that, then you’re going to want to go on the longer edge of that. But overall, uh, it’s right there in the width. You just divide it by half, measure it out, and then you place that center right on that point. Makes sense. Jennifer also says, “I’m planting puffer fish hydrangeas. Love those. Mine are in full bloom in my landscape right now, and I didn’t want to space everything further mature size just yet, cuz then I’m going to have a huge big empty space for a long time. Is it bad to move them as they get bigger?” and just bump out my flower bed as they grow. I have a hedge of boxwoods in front of them. They’re going to have to get bumped out also. Is it bad to wait? Should I just bite the bullet, make the flower bed the size that I plan it to be 5 years from now? Boy, that’s a great question. And Jennifer is really thinking here and I, you know, I would again say what we said in the first uh segment. The fun begins uh right now. So, you know, uh I would say do it as you go as opposed to putting them in at the fiveyear distance and sitting there with all that extra space. But that’s just me. Well, you know, I Jennifer’s question and the way that she phrased this really made me realize that my quote, “Life is too short for proper spacing does come from this this exact phenomenon where, you know, you put in a new plant and even if you get a larger plant like a three gallon or something, if it is a bigger plant like a puffer fish hydrangeanger, which is going to get to be, you know, about 5t tall and wide, you are waiting some time for that to fill in and you do have a lot of exposed ground. So, I get that. But I would recommend personally not moving it. I would plan for the five-year spacing. And the reason for that, well, first of all, if you have clay soil, uh, trying to move things is easier said than done. Much less of an issue for you and I out here, Rick, with our nice sandy soils. But it does, as as much as Rick and I move plants around and don’t have an issue with it, it does set the plant back some when you when you move it. And, you know, depending on a lot of other factors, um, it can set it back quite a bit. So you don’t necessarily want to lose that momentum. So kind of what do you do? Uh if there I I don’t think that the only two options are, you know, have to move the plant or look at big empty space for five years. So I have a couple of suggestions for you, Jennifer. Uh you could do annuals in between them. I think that that is smart. As a matter of fact, I take back what I originally said uh because I love to have that fun every fall. You’re right. Why not do that? Yeah. So you can put annuals. makes perfect sense. Um, of all sorts in there. Just sew some zenyas, do some things, take up that space. Uh, short-lived perennials also work well. So, you know, usually there are a number of beloved perennials that are just naturally rather short-lived. So, just a couple off the top of my head. Galardia, scabiosa, which is also known as pin cushion flower, lupins, beautiful plant, but not the longest live. They do typically self sew. So you don’t have nothing, but the plant that you bought does disappear. Um, and so those are a good choice, too, because you’ll be able to enjoy them in the space and then they’ll just naturally kind of die out or, you know, maybe start self-seing in some cases. Um, and you won’t have to worry about it. Or, you know, if you have other plants that are inexpensive like dillies, just plant them and then as they end up getting shaded out by your shrubs growing, just let them expire, you know, just let them go. I think that’s smart. uh mini vista super tunias and using them as a ground cover filler. Fabulous choice. That’s a great choice. Yeah. I mean that is in and you know as much as people love the vista super tunias because they’re so vigorous. Sometimes they’re too vigorous for a basket. So you let it grow all over your ground. You’re going to have a fabulous carpet. You can also do containers with some tropicals. So you could just place containers in those areas until that fills in. So I don’t think it’s an eitheror situation. I think you have lots of options. But I would do your long-term planning now. Save yourself the work and the setback on the plants later. Love it. Ryan asks, “Good day, fellow gardeners. I have a question regarding dividing perennials in a cold zone three Canadian garden.” Wow. I usually divide and transplant my perennials in spring and I’m looking at switching it to fall so my spring seems less busy as we have a short crazy spring season. Will my plants be less likely to come through our cold winters if I were to do this as low snow cover in the first part of winter can be unpredictable and our cold winters can be extreme. I love this question. Yeah. And you and I may have two different answers here because I’m going to say to Ryan, go for it. I divide and move pretty much all of my perennials in fall and I think as long as you mulch them in so they don’t heave out of the ground, you’re going to be just fine with the cold weather. So Stacy, I’m recommending Ryan goes for it. I agree. Uh I, you know, either way works. Um but I was so satisfied with my results that I had from transplanting a bunch of stuff last fall. Now, it is true that Rick and I do live in a bit of a more mild climate than it sounds like you do, Ryan, but I think for the most part, especially herbaceous perennials, there are very few that come to mind for me, and I’m speaking specifically about herbaceous perennials, not like kind of tender semi-wy perennials like butterfly bush, lavender, and uh and karaopterus. Um, not that kind of stuff. But any herbaceous perennial, it’s it should be just fine. The only exception would be any perennials that typically get winter damage in your area, which I I can’t imagine you’d be growing many of those anyway. Maybe you are. Um, and then you can always just try, you know, if you have multiple plants, try some and and leave others. Um, but I am I am definitely team fall transplanting and dividing. I agree. Uh, and you know, I think that even with low snow cover, as long as your perennials are hearty and reliable in your area, you really have nothing to worry about. And mulch of course always a good idea. Yeah. Because if you have a freeze thaw cycle they could heave out of the ground. So you take care of that with mulch. And I think the important thing for people to remember is even if the air temperature is getting cold. You’d be surprised how warm the soil stays well into December. Yeah. And and that means more root growth and that means your plants are much happier in spring rather than having to recover from the transplanting. So yep. Go for it, Ryan. Save that spring energy for other garden tasks. We’re going to take a little break. When we come back, we’ll be continuing our conversation about how the fun begins now in fall. So, please stay tuned. Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified show. Today, as we talk about how the fun begins, it’s a great time of the year to do some planning, some dreaming, some scheming for your landscape and your garden. Maybe you’ve had a few disappointments this year. We’re reminded often that gardeners like to sit back and say, “Wait till next year.” I love the author and historian uh Doris Karns Goodwin. Uh she’s written some wonderful books including one called Wait Till next year about her childhood and how she loved the Brooklyn Dodgers in the 1940s 1950s and that was their mantra. Wait till next year because they’d make it to the World Series and every year the Yankees would knock them out until 1955 when the Brooklyn Dodgers finally broke through and won the World Series in that year. And then of course two years later they pull up stakes and move to Los Angeles. But uh she’s a wonderful uh author and historian and I think often of wait till next year. And that’s that’s what we do in our landscapes. And so it’s the perfect time of the year as everything is fullgrown to get out there and do a little bit of spatial design. Now once the spatial design is finalized, it’s later that you can work in the hardscape and the landscape elements. One of the things to do with your bubble drawings or thinking about spatial design in your living space is to think about how spaces connect to each other. And I’m not always good about that. Things will get overgrown and then I can’t get from point A to point B. It’s difficult. you want it to be uh friendly and fun to get to the various different let’s call them bubbles uh in your landscape. So that’s something to look at as far as spatial design is concerned which brings me to an important point that I want to make Stacy and that is when you do this and you do spatial design in your landscape it is important to look at the negative space and negative space is very important not only in a photograph uh how it’s composed but also within a landscape. It’s an it’s an area where we rest, where it’s not as busy. So, obviously the uh number one negative space area within a landscape would arguably be turf, a lawn area, paths, too, right? I hope I hope paths count. Okay. Good. Okay. So, turf, paths, gravel, provided the gravel is clearly defined with a steel edging or aluminum edging. But those negative spaces are very important to think about. You need that your landscape needs that for some rest otherwise it gets too busy. Uh also does that make sense? It does make sense. Yeah. And um I I don’t really have any negative space in my garden right now except for paths. I have that struggle too. Um but I think a patio I have a couple patios and that’s kind of like a negative space. But it is so important to to kind of design those different areas and and link them. And I do want to say just for the benefit of those uh out there who have smaller yards, one of the best ways that you can make there’s two things you can do to make your garden seem bigger. One is obscure the edges so no one can really see how where it actually ends. So if you have some big plants that kind of obscure it and if possible make uh winding curving paths. Yes. because that will slow you down as you move through into those different spaces. You know, a straight line is obviously the shortest distance between two points. So, if you mess with that and you kind of put in some curves, you can even make it, you know, I a garden does not need to be efficient and you may find that your garden is much more fun to be in. Yes. if it’s not just a bunch of straight lines. And I say this as someone whose paths are largely a bunch of straight lines. Um but you know, you you don’t have to make everything efficient. It is about being in the space. Uh so you know, wind those around, make them double back on themselves just to have more opportunity to spend in that path. Yeah. So think about that negative space. And again, um, you know, for me, it I don’t necessarily do. I try to I try to look for negative space in a composition, but my problem is, oh, I like that plant. Oh, I want that plant. Oh, I need that. Oh, I’m, you know, I can’t go to a garden center without walking out with two or three plants. And quickly you lose that uh that negative space. So, think about that. But that’s what falls for, right? That’s when you start looking at all of that. I couldn’t leave the garden center without it moments. And you can then have some objective perspective on it and say, “Oh, I, you know, I need to thin this out. I’m going to move things around.” It’s important to just always have that kind of, you know, critical uh eye as to optimizing your space. Yeah. No, that’s right. and uh you know looking at various designs out and about or looking on Pinterest or whatever it may be to get some ideas. But I let me give you a hot take. I’ll be controversial here. All right. I love it. Interior design is generally pretty universal. Exterior design and a landscape is not. I think an exterior design more so reflects our personality or the chaos than an inter because with an interior design you have the trim, you have the wall color, you have you know the things that you add to the room and there are some people who are very good at it. Um, and I respect uh people who can do that. But a lot of the concepts within interior design, I think, are somewhat universal. Whereas outside, it’s almost like anything goes. Well, you know, you’re absolutely right because of course in interior design, if something is a living room, it needs to have chairs for sitting. If something is a dining room, it needs to have a table for dining. Whereas outside, it can be anything. And I think that that is part of why people don’t take full advantage of it because they don’t have that par those parameters. Yes. To help them decide what they’re going to do. It’s it’s a quote that I’ve said before on the show. The enemy of art is the absence of limitations. In our house, we’re limited by what role different rooms in our homes fill. Whereas outside, we have no such limitations necessarily. So we have to impose them on ourselves and then be creative within the limitations that we decide to impose on our landscapes. Yeah. You have to look at the environment. I guess you know what I’m trying to say is if you see a really cool landscape in France or Hawaii, it may not necessarily thrive in Minneapolis, right? But the concept can translate. But the concept can translate. So this is this is fun stuff to to Do you have a vacation planned? you’re like throwing out all these crazy locations. This is a fun time of the year. I don’t know. I don’t know what I got in this mug here today. But, you know, uh and and when you think about that too, again, I talked about universal design. Think about some plants as denim. Anything goes great with denim. You can wear a dress shirt, you can wear a t-shirt, whatever it may be. Everything goes great with denim. So, the kind of denim plants I’m thinking about for a landscape are arborvite or boxwood. Does that translate? Does that make sense? They’re kind of denim plants. They they they’re the work a day. Yeah. You know, they’re still useful and great. Classic. Denim is also classic. Yeah. Uh but yeah, they go with everything. So, if you don’t know what to do, you know, you plant a boxwood, it pretty much always works. Yeah. Now, of course, this time of the year also, you can do something that is one of my favorite and most fun things to do. Stealing leaves from your neighbor. Yeah, that’s part of it. That’s part of it. That comes a little later. Leaves aren’t going to start falling off the trees until midocctober or so. But, uh, around that time, uh, we don’t get newspaper anymore. We don’t get newspapers, uh, delivered to our homes anymore. And I used to always use newspaper to smother grass areas. I’d put down the newspaper, then some of the leaves coming off the trees, and then some soil on top of the leaves. Let it cook all winter long. And the following spring, you got a really cool planting bed. And I’m just saying to do some dreaming and scheming this time of the year, you can take some turf areas that you want to convert to flower beds, maybe use cardboard in lie of newspaper and do some of that uh that smothering. Maybe you can do some dreaming and scheming by grabbing a garden hose and snaking it around in the landscape and creating a a a bed shape that looks great to you. But we’re coming up on a time of year when when that’s an opportunity, too. And next spring, you’ll be glad that you did it, you know. And that’s also a great way to use some uh those odds and ends cans of spray paint you might have in your basement. Uh take those and use them to mark out the uh the bed lines. That’s what we do here all the time at the nursery. So, it’s just fun. I mean, I, you know, I can’t wait to hook up my trailer and drive around the neighborhood and pick up leaves and and get into this. It’s such a fun time. Even though I love summer, uh, this is just a fun time of the year. If you can’t tell, this was Rick’s idea for this topic. He is hype. As a matter of fact, let’s call it. We’re going to call the show here. Uh, because I’m going to get to work. Yeah, you got to No time to miss, no time to lose. Fun. Oh, I did want to share a word of the day, by the way, that I maybe for the future we can talk about this. Echomusicology. Echomusicology. It’s an area of study that explores the relationships between music or sound and the natural environment. Oo, that’s cool. I thought that, you know, cuz I I have my ornamental grasses that are dancing in the breeze at this time of the year. I was thinking about echomusicology. I like it. I’ve never heard that word before. I need to dig in a little deeper on that. Stacy, it’s been fun. Thank you. Sure has. Thanks, Rick. Thanks, Adriana. And thanks most of all to you for watching us on YouTube, for listening to the radio show version, or looking for our podcast wherever you download your favorite podcast. Have a great week.