How to transform a sandy suburban block into a thriving food forest

🌿 Thanks for joining me at Jetto’s Patch! Enjoy this Suburban Food Forest Tour (1/2 Acre, 200+ fruit trees) and DOWNLOAD this PDF for a summary of the garden and design tips. https://bit.ly/sand-to-food-forest-PDF

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Join me, Morag Gamble — permaculture teacher and founder of the Permaculture Education Institute — as I walk with Michele through her extraordinary urban food forest in Maida Vale, Western Australia. Known as Jetto’s Patch, this half-acre suburban block is packed with more than 200 fruit trees, layers of herbs, vegetables, pollinator plants, and self-seeding greens.

Michele shares how she and Dario transformed pure sand into rich, fertile soil with mulch and compost, created shade with vines and trees, and designed a garden that produces food year-round — from bananas and pecans to potatoes and brassicas. Along the way she reveals recipes, garden tips, plant information, and permaculture design ideas you can try at home.

💬 What inspired you most about this tour? I’d love to hear in the comments below!
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🔔 Subscribe to Our Permaculture Life Youtube Channel for more permaculture tours, tips & tutorials.

If you’d love to start or deepen your permaculture journey, explore my courses at the Permaculture Education Institute:

👉 The Incredible Edible Garden
(https://permacultureeducationinstitute.org/incredible-edible-garden/)

👉 Permaculture Design Certificate (https://permacultureeducationinstitute.org/permaculture-design-certificate/)

👉 Permaculture Educators Program (https://permacultureeducationinstitute.org/permaculture-educators-program/)

📸 Follow along on Instagram: @permacultureeducationinstitute
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🌱 Huge thanks to Michele & Dario Franzinelli – you can find them on Facebook:
👉 Michele: https://facebook.com/michele.franzinellijettospatch
👉 Dario: https://facebook.com/dario.franzinellijettospatch
👉 Jetto’s Patch: https://www.facebook.com/groups/JETTOSPATCH
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FILM CHAPTERS
0:00 – Introduction
1:30 – Welcome to Jetto’s Patch (Maida Vale, WA)
2:06 – From lawn to food forest: the suburban plot
2:48 – Turning sand into soil with mulch & compost
3:33 – Creating shade & microclimates with vines & trellises
4:54 – What grows in Perth? From citrus to bananas
5:17 – The pecan tree story & chop-and-drop mulch
6:43 – Family traditions & gardening roots
7:37 – From lawn to herb garden beginnings
8:09 – Designing for year-round food
8:56 – Saving & sharing seed with community
9:30 – Citrus, bananas, apples — proving “you can’t grow that here” wrong
10:24 – 200+ fruit trees in a suburban block
11:35 – Building soil with compost everywhere & rock dust
13:20 – Chickens as soil builders
13:53 – Avocados, grafting & sweet potato groundcover
14:46 – Harvesting daily meals: 100 different greens
15:25 – Heritage beans & rare Argentine pumpkin
16:30 – Self-seeding brassicas & living seed bank
17:30 – Bananas in Perth: nine backyard varieties
20:00 – Seed saving, soil care & manure strategies
25:00 – Mulch, compost & seed-raising mix recipes
27:00 – Teaching garden, community tours & sharing food
30:00 – Cooling the suburb: 12°C cooler microclimate
34:00 – Mapping 400+ plant varieties year-round
38:40 – Rats, pests & natural allies (frogs, birds, bees)
40:00 – Water plants, taro & water chestnuts
42:00 – Blueberries, diversity & thoughtful design
45:00 – Figs, dragon fruit & tamarillo
47:00 – Citrus pests & natural controls
50:00 – Artichokes, self-seeding & plant communities
53:00 – Lily pilly champagne & herbal recipes
55:00 – Pigeon peas, desert lime & unusual fruits
58:00 – Marmalade berries & sharing cuttings
1:01:00 – Closing reflections: abundance in a suburban food forest

How do you turn a barren, sandy, suburban backyard into an amazing food forest with hundreds of edible plants? Come on a tour now with me into the amazing garden of Michelle and Dario of Jetto’s Patch. This halfacre garden near Perth is going to blow your mind. I’ve been teaching permaculture now for around 30 years, and sometimes you go to gardens where you just find something really special. This is one of them. Michelle is going to be sharing her garden tips, her design ideas, recipes, plant information, and all her secrets about how to create this absolutely beautiful, abundant, resilient suburban backyard food forest. If we’ve not met before, hi, I’m Mora Gamble from the Permaculture Education Institute and the creator of this permaculture channel, our permaculture life. I visit gardens all over and my own garden sharing inspirational stories and ideas about how to create beautiful abundance. If you’d like to dive into this more to work out how to design your own abundant gardens or to think about how you can teach permaculture to others and make this your livelihood, too, check out the show notes. I have a whole range of courses that you can have a look at there. But now, let’s turn to this amazing garden tour with the wonderfully knowledgeable and humbly generous Michelle Franzinelli. You are going to be amazed. Come and see what’s possible in a suburban backyard. Oh, I almost forgot. This film is so full of tips and tricks, so I thought I would create a little bit of a summary sheet to help you kind of remember things that Michelle and I have been talking about. Click down below and you can find the link to download this PDF. Hi everyone. I’m here at the garden of Michelle and Dario Friendsinelli and it’s called Jetto’s Patch. Am I right? Jetto’s Patch. And we’re in uh Mavale in Western Australia. And so this is amazing garden. You won’t believe it when you see what Michelle and Dario have created. So, I’m going to follow Michelle around as she gives me a bit of a tour of this place. So, welcome and thank you for being part of our garden tour today. Thank you very much for coming to visit. Oh, I’m so inspired already. I I had to stop, Michelle, to say I think we need to start recording cuz we were chatting so much already. It’s basically an average suburban plot. It’s just under half an acre. So, it’s one of the the old standard. We live quietly and somewhat differently from the rest of the neighborhood. We’re obsessed with growing useful and edible plants. And over the decades, we’ve tried to show exactly how much can be grown across the Perth landscape from all over the world. And pretty much anything goes. We have some of the worst soils in the world and it’s often labor intensive to kind of keep on replenishing them, but it’s worth it in the end. You can end up with good simple soil that will grow most plants and trees. I wonder if you can just grab a handful of the soil to show cuz you you told me just before that this was sand underneath is sand. So like that is phenomenal. So the secret to your success of growing such beautiful soil here which is the foundation for everything for the nutrients for the thriving of the plants for the holding of the moisture. What’s your secret? Basically it’s mulch. It’s simple mulch that we either get from the park next door to us uh when they go mulching their eucalyptus trees and also includes mixed tree mulch from the garden and they’re added to the soil and it’s a constant replenishment of thin layers of mulch throughout the year. And so you told me before too that really nothing ever leaves this garden. Everything is always just put straight back into the garden. Yeah, it’s it’s all recycled. Anything anything and everything we can in terms of protecting the moisture in the soil. One is this organic matter and the other is around providing shade cuz as we walk through, we go under trees and we go under trelluses and we go under vines that are just everywhere. All all the kind of the trelluses that you see, especially in summertime, they’re covered in vines of various sorts. bean vines, pumpkin vines, you name it. And that creates shade throughout the garden. This is actually the open area where a lot of the main vegetables are grown. But vegetables and herbs are grown throughout the garden uh in between the trees and the trees are grown close together, kept to a minimum height for easy picking, but they provide enough light so that everything grows well and also keeps openness in winter through various deciduous trees and shade in summer. And so what are the kind of things that you’ve been able to grow here that people are surprised by here in in the Perth region? Well, there’s there’s not a lot you you can’t grow. We’ve looked at growing from northern Europe, from the Mediterranean, from the subtropical areas to the tropical areas, and most plants and trees will grow here. You may have to put a little bit more work into it, but just about everything and anything can grow in in the Perth landscape. Yeah. So, we’re underneath a a massive pecan tree that you know, anyone who knows pecans will know how big pecans get, but you have kept this to uh you know, you’ve what would you say polarded this so that it comes down? Yeah. Darian did the tree over a 14-year period so as not to shock it. Uh he slowly brought it down until now it’s just a small lollipop size. We still get bags of pecans. Um so more than enough for two people. You know, children are all grown up and gone away. So yeah, there and underneath this tree. So, it provides enormous amount of shade and and organic matter that you’d chop and drop, but underneath it, you’ve got things that I can see either selfseeding, but also things that you’re um putting in. You know, this mixture of your vegetables and your trees is what you describe, like a forage garden. Well, in another month, all the leaves will drop off this tree. So, that’s going to be dormant for the next 2 3 months. I’ve already planted potatoes under there. They will be up in maybe another week and a half and so they’ll be taking all the available light and by the time I come to dig them up there will be new shoots on this tree. Fantastic. It’s it’s a very intensive growing area in in this garden. So, how did you learn to grow in this way? We both been of an era where we were brought up with it. Uh Dario’s parents grew all their own food in their backyard in Mlands. Um they arrived 1945 um from Italy actually. Tantino which is is basically an autonomous area which was actually Austrian. My parents they were very much into ornamental gardening. So, I had that, but my aunt, she had 16 and 1/2 acres in the Rocky Mountains, and I used to spend a lot of my childhood with her, and she taught me everything about growing. Amazing. And you said when you got here it was just lawn, which is hard to believe now because every single piece has so many things growing in it. Where was your starting point for your garden? Um, basically over there because over there, um, the original kind of vegetable area that I planted out when I met Daario, I saw all this lawn and I saw this magnificent compost heap that he’d been kind of throwing things onto and I thought, “This man has potential here.” And so we got we got rakes and we spread it out um across the the garden and I started planting. And so you started with a herb garden and then you just kept kept going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It basically because we were both working full-time, we would set up a bed and when that was established and we were happy that it was working, then we would move on to the next thing. There were some trees that, you know, were established and we built on that. We filled in the gaps. I made out a list of things that I wanted to grow so that we had a good range of food for 12 months of the year. So that was a case of kind of jigsawing plants and trees from different areas of the world and fitting this in so that we had at least 12 different varieties of fruit and vegetables um at any week in the year. So, as well as having the that diversity of vegetables, you’re also helping to grow seeds as well. Like, I mean, you’re saving seeds so that other people can grow out seeds as well, but mostly just sharing them amongst your community or just how does that Yeah, it’s kind of what’s your approach on that? Because we we do garden tours. Um, that tends to be done at at those times or online. Um, a lot of it I just kind of send people, you know, via envelopes. What was a really great producer that you’re so glad that you introduced into your garden? I don’t think you can go past citrus, you know, kind of, even though we’re all familiar with with, you know, the citrus family. They’re pretty hard to beat. Years ago, I was told that you couldn’t really grow apples well here. You couldn’t grow bananas here. A lot of the subtropical trees you couldn’t grow here. and we kind of decided to to prove them wrong really. We we’ve got about eight or nine varieties of bananas. We used to have more, but we’ve whittleled it down over the years with all the fruit trees as to the ones that we like best. And at the moment, we’re in the process of kind of downsizing because we’re getting older and we we really want to now make sure the garden is lowmaintenance. This this happens throughout your life. If you’re in the same place for a long time, you not only make it your life, you shape it to suit your life at different points. How many fruit trees have you got here now? At the moment, there’s over 200. 200? Y. It’s all squeezed into this. That is amazing. And like you said, you you keep them small because you want to be able to harvest them and you want to have space for light and other things. And we we don’t want trees that produce massive amounts of fruit because then uh it would be a case of trying to you know find ways to give them away which we do but that takes up time. We’re in an area where there’s a lot of fruit fly and we also have to maintain the trees by putting nets over and bagging the fruit and that takes time too. So we keep it small and manageable. So this garden is for you and your family. This is just to produce food for you and as a beautiful place to be and and it’s as you can see it’s absolutely doable. Yes. But it does take time. Yeah. Um I think people tend to be quite impatient now. Um they they buy a tree and you know kind of 6 months later why isn’t it giving me fruit? So if you were to start thinking about getting a fruit tree somewhere like what do you do first before you go out and buy the fruit tree? How do you prepare your soil for planting? We have pure sand here. There’s there’s a lot of products on the market and they do a good job, but we like to keep as much inhouse as as possible. Um, Daria always says that sand is a a perfect growing medium because it provides good drainage. And yes, it things do get harsh here in summer. We put layers of mulch on a new bed. It might be quite a thick layer to begin with and we let that break down for about a year. We’ll we’ll continue to replenish it if necessary. And the time by the time we’ve done that, we’ve got a nice good layer of of black gold. So your whole garden basically is a compost. Yes. So you’re not compost over there and then bringing it to somewhere else. You just all the time composting everywhere. Yeah. Like nature does that that’s initially. Now after after that has taken place then we’ll start to improve it. But because we are intensively growing because we don’t leave any of the groundow at all. Uh I and I honestly because we we love the food so much, we don’t have time for green manure. Great though it is, we just choose to keep improving the soil after we’ve harvested the the vegetables. And so they’ll they’ll get a handful of rock dust for minerals and trace elements. The most important thing for Perth soils, minerals and trace elements, because we are severely deficient in them. And you have to use good quality rock dust. There is some rubbish out there, but you’ve got to look at the item and make sure that it has a comprehensive amount of minerals, especially, you know, things like zinc, selenium, boron, minute quantities, but they are essential to the soil. Yeah. And you can just see around you. Everything just looks so vibrant and healthy. I mean, what you’re doing, the plants are telling you that it’s it’s doing well. Yeah. Yeah, until very recently we we had chickens. Uh we’ve kept chickens for a very long time and so the garden basically ran on chicken manure and mulch. How did you manage this garden with chickens? They had the whole back garden to run around in and that was cordoned off and they would be let out and I’d just kind of follow them around with a broom. Oh my god, there’s still a a pumpkin up there. So this is an avocado tree. What kind of avocado is this? Now there’s a warts on this side and there’s a charwell on the other. Ah, okay. Very nice. Shepherd Shepherd Dario has grafted it. He’s he’s started in recent years to go around grafting little extras onto all of the trees. That’s such a great idea. So, I’ve noticed too that you’ve got lots of things like sweet potato underneath. How’s your sweet potato grow here in this climate? I use it as a a ground cover because it keeps the weeds down. It’s fantastic at that. But growing them directly under a tree means that they get less light. So you’re going to get less tubers. So kind of the the tubers tend to come from around the edges where there is more light, but you could because you can eat the the leaves of sweet potatoes that also provide a summer spinach as well. So I can imagine when you’re um harvesting for your dinner, you’d have like I don’t know hundred different sorts of greens, something something like that. I you know it’s um sometimes it it’s fun because uh when you put something together you never know what you’re going to be harvesting and so you can kind of be cheffy and and put all sorts of fantastic things on the plate. Gourmet dinner every night. Yeah. And it it looks very colorful with all the different fruits as well that you can add and nuts and things like that. Look at these avocados. So amazing. So this this trellles would have had I can see remnants of tomatoes on it and yeah it’s had tomatoes over summer and also um a pumpkin called Argentine primitive which is not available commercially for the last 30 years I believe. Oh wow. Um it is grown by some people down south um including a farmer who gave it to me who I’m perpetually grateful to. And this bean what is this? This is magnificent. A purple lab green bean. And also I’ve noticed too lots of the kind of the mustard greens. Do they selfseed for use? Yes. All over the place. So there’s actually meant to be shellots uh about to start shooting underneath there, but they’re not going to get a much much of a chance until I harvest those. Down here is is kind of an apple area. There’s a pear tree. Um couple of pear trees and the rest are apples. bear basque and then oh more mango. In between the apple trees over winter when they lose their leaves up come all the broccololis and kales and selfsewn cabbages. So you’re saying you just get selfseeding broccoli growing in and around underneath all over the place. How beautiful is that? Like it seems to me like your strategy has created at a level of e the fact that things will selfseed. Do you ever find yourself moving things around or thinning things out a lot or Oh, yes. Um because, you know, sometimes they come up in inappropriate places where you know you’re going to walk over them or things like that. So then I’ll I’ll just kind of get a basket and I’ll dig them up and relocate them. But it’s it’s fun because uh especially because brassacas crosspollinate quite readily. You get some interesting crosses. I’ve had one with Tuscan kale, much larger leaves, much flatter leaves than than normal. So you get kind of twice the leaf for Amazing. You’re a living seed bankank here in your garden. You know, the the crosses are also much hardier. So um yes, no work food. I know. Isn’t that amazing? And I’m noticing behind you here are the banana upper story. That’s that’s a red dhaka banana. And it’s it’s a slow producer because it obviously prefers warmer weather um which we don’t get in winter. It’s quite So you said you have eight varieties of bananas here. Bananas. Um I think it’s nine. There used to be about 12 but um we we have got rid of some which we just didn’t like the taste of. So do you have any that you use as cooking bananas or they all sort of No. Um we did grow them but Dario’s not into that kind of thing. So yeah. Yeah. And you know that’s the thing when you’ve got a garden that is well it’s not a small garden but you have limited space. You go okay what do I need to grow? What do what do I what can I let go? And I think yes that’s a really important strategy. Yeah. And that that’s where we’re at now. It’s gone from try everything and have fun to we know what we like. We know what works. We’re well and truly into an established routine with this garden. Um, so yeah, and this is the the life that we lead. And I wanted to ask you, you have lots of pots around the edges here. What’s why do you grow in pots when you have garden space? You think you want to grow something, you think there’s no space, but plant it in a pot and suddenly you find space. So extra space for all those extra things. Actually, there’s there’s an extra reason because in a garden like this, the main job is light maintenance. And for some plants, growing them in pots, simply because you’ve raised them up a little bit, they get a little bit of extra light, just enough in an awkward position for them to grow well. Yeah, really sensible. In the case of this one, it’s it’s even more simple because these are garlic chives. I plant those in the garden. They will spread everywhere. They’re too invasive. They’re best in a pot. Is that the white flowering garlic chives? So the Yes. Yeah, I have the white flowering and also the purple flowering. The purple flowering seems to be a little bit more well behaved. It clumps rather than does the spreading thing. I don’t think those are available in WA and and we are actually more limited in a way because uh we have the highest restrictions, quarantine restrictions in the world. We we are now almost totally cut off as regards a lot of seeds from the rest of Australia and the rest of the world. So we actually have to save every seed we can if possible um if you’re living in WA because things are starting to get tougher in that respect. I think we should all be doing the seed saving as well and because it’s, you know, relying on relying on other people to keep growing seeds for us is a is a huge thing. Whereas the more that we grow them in our place, the more they’re localizing, the more that they start to belong here and and become, like you were saying before, you know, stronger, more resilient, and adapted. I’ I’d probably go as far as to say I I think the uh well, the nursery industry is is shrinking slowly but surely. also for fertilizers and things like that uh they are going to become more expensive and less available. So I think the more people learn to save seed and also try and uh dress their soils locally and inhouse as much as possible the better off they will be if they gain those skills because one day we may not be able to get all these fancy fertilizers anymore. We use manure. I mean it place used to be run on chicken manure but when we got rid of the chickens and when we acquired more and more trees we started using sheep manure. Um so where do you get source that from? I’d uh a local a local organic guy up in the hills. Oh nice. Yeah. So that’s easy. And so you just sprinkle the the um sheet manure around or you compost it first as needed. I mean a plant just you know needs a small handful. So that will keep them going for a few months. And so you you don’t do anything to it. You just have your sheet manure and just sort of different different techniques depending on what type of plant it is, you know, because some plants require more more manure than others. Um brassacas tend to be quite heavy feeders. Other things really they they don’t really like much fertilizer at all. Um, some of the subtropical trees, they they like cow manure because it’s a gentler manure. And so we did use some cow manure in the past. We’ve decided, right, we we’re going to kind of cut back on that, too, because everything’s just fine. Yeah. So now we’re down to a little bit of chicken manure and a bit of sheep manure. Amazing. Everything looks so vibrant. Should we go down this way and see? Sure. What’s I’m noticing, too. There’s a lot of little things like dandelions in the pathways and wonderful things popping up all over the place. It’s just it’s a garden that wants to burst. So, you can just see a few of the reda bananas starting to make some I think all these will burst into flour very shortly. We got a mango here which um is actually going to be moved eventually. Dario is kind of taking graphs. So, we actually might get rid of this one. We’ve become very good at moving mature trees around. How How do you do that? Basically, it’s a it’s a matter of cutting uh around the roots, right? And also pruning the top to some degree, not not enough to shock the plant too much. And uh resting it for a while to get it used to the situation. And then we dig another hole, solid base. Don’t put any compost or anything in the bottom because that could cause instability. We put it on the firm sand and then we put the compost all around it. Ah, so it just seeps in. Yeah. Doesn’t disturb the root base too much. Your garden is like your pallet. We keep painting new designs as you go. It’s Hi, I’m Gamble from the Permaculture Education Institute. And if we’ve not met before, I’m a permaculture educator and designer. I’ve been teaching permaculture for over 30 years. If you’d like to find out more about how to do this kind of design work and perhaps even become a teacher yourself, check out the show notes below. I’ve got a whole range of different courses that you can do with me. And I can see here that the importance of bagging. Yeah, it’s I mean um in in WA fruitfly is is pretty bad. Bagging and um putting nets over trees is basically mandatory for most fruits. Resting a net on top of a tree can sometimes make it unstable if you have high wind. Dario welded some metal structures like the spokes of an umbrella on a pole, puts it next to the tree and it just takes a couple of poles and we quickly slip the net over. So it takes the work out of it and the weight of the net does not rest on the tree is protected. So that’s because we’re keeping the trees all within picking. All of these, you know, kind of tree branches are potentially going to be mulch at some point, you know, because we’re pruning little bits throughout the year. Uh, and that creates the good soil that we’ve got. What have you got here? What’s growing on here? Is this cabbage? Yes, cabbages. They’re a bit close together at the moment, but um it’s all right. They’ll sort themselves out. They they tend to kind of flop out in different directions. So, we got the pomegranates above. Sorry, I’m just going to straighten up. This This is a sunrise lime. A sunrise lime. And there’s an emperor mandarin behind it. We have more lemur beans, the Madagascar lemur beans. There’s arrow root. An arrow root. That’s a very popular one in mine for uh chop and drop materials cuz it just grows so fast. And uh Yeah. Well, as you can see, um, kind of from the, uh, the banana trees, they get dropped around the bed, when some of the trees lose their leaves, we just sweep all that into the bed, or else it gets taken down to the compost heap if I need it for um, things like seed raising mix. I don’t make the seed raising mix myself anymore, but I used to, and so the leaf mold was was a very good What was your recipe for your seed raising mix? Basically, just garden sand. We keep a a pile of the original garden sand back there and I mixed that with the sifted leaf mold and just added a a tiny amount of manure and that’s it. So we got chory here. So that’s flowering and that goes to seed or by itself. Um takes about six 7 months before it goes through the whole process. So it can be a bit awkward plants hanging around. But so what do you do? Do you just sort of like tuck them back like that and Do you keep track of what’s seeding? Just shove them out of the way basically. Do you keep track of what’s seeding and come out and collect them or you just And I mean if I can’t remember where it is, then I I write signs out and things like that. I’ve noticed you have lots of signs. So is that that’s mostly because this is this is also a teaching garden as well and a place where you’ve had many many many visitors come. Yes, I think most of Perth has actually seen this place over the last few decades. So what permaculture courses, tours, visits, um media visits, community gardens, garden groups, all Yeah. And what it’s an amazing gift to be able to open up your garden like that. I mean, it’s we want to share the wonderful life that we lead and just to make sure that people don’t lose connection with their their food. And humans have grown food and foraged food for well, you know, millennium. Yeah. So, in in some way and Perth is just such a a perfect place to to grow most of the plants and trees you can imagine from all around the world. Take advantage of it. The prices are not going to go down in the shops. And we’re eating food that is perfectly organic. We know what went into it. It hasn’t been stored for for two or three years. And we pick it at exactly the time of our choosing when it’s perfectly ripe to our taste. You can’t really do any better than that. No, you can’t. And this isn’t this is our natural habitat. Yeah. And I don’t want to lose contact with that either cuz that that’s it’s part of what makes us human. Yeah. It’s being around nature and being around the soil. Yeah. and and growing things, tending to things, and and just feeling, I don’t know, like sheltered by this, like, you know, it’s this beautiful garden you’ve created. It doesn’t feel like you’re out here being exposed to the elements or, you know, the hard labor of lots of digging and turning and things. It’s this gentle way of being that’s nourishing. Yes. And in case I didn’t mention, this is a no dig garden. So, we got a a maringa tree there. It’s an African maringa. And we’ve got a young there’s three different graphs on that mango tree. This is where we keep the main mulch pole. This is one of the important things about being able to manage a garden like this that we found. Firstly, having mulch always at hand all year round, having compost at hand all year round, having seeds around all year round when the lockdowns happened and things. I had great fun. I I didn’t even notice. So, you wouldn’t have noticed here. So, this avenue of apples here looks absolutely delightful. So, how are you managing these apples? They’re they’re still kind of semispalied. They were espaliade um when we had the chicken pen fence along, but they’re very soon to have a a major prune, but in between they’re just creating a nice little sheltered area. So in summer, so we’re here almost in winter at the moment and it’s just absolute abundance. In summer, what is it like out here? Um, stinking hot is the honest truth. But underneath in terms of what you can grow, is it v like you still able to grow lots of things underneath everything? And what about your water? How do you manage keeping water? because of the uh tree cover, we’re about 12° uh lower in temperature out in the garden than um on the main road. 12° difference. 12° difference. You know, like this is the kind of information that we need to be sharing with policy makers. You know, our cities and our towns are going to become unlivable as things get, you know, heat up. Yeah. 12 degrees, that’s not unsubstantial. Amazing. And that would be I guess because of not just the shade but also the that microclimate, the moisture in the soil. Like you’d be a far more and of course uh subtropical trees love the moisture that’s you know kind of being kept in the ground and also generated um around them. Yeah. So yeah, it all works out very well. And also some um warrior greens growing underneath here. The New Zealand spinach. Yes. Yeah, that that’s another plant that just pops up around the garden self seeds. And look at So we’ve got the underneath here underneath these pear trees and the citrus there’s the sweet potato and then the warle greens. And look at that. That’s this beautiful living mulch. So you just keep keep trimming it as it starts to escape into your pathway. Yes, the the warle greens um are good. They don’t like the the summer very much and what happens is they like to retreat back under the trees and that’s where they hang around. So, they’re still available to be picked. But once the weather gets cooler, they start becoming more adventurous and they pop out again. It’s so fun to watch them over the seasons. And I guess like have you been here for how many years have you been here now? 30? No, 40. I came here in ‘ 89 and my husband was here in about 78. So many decades. Yes. Yeah. So you would have watched and noticed lots of things. I mean the garden has changed with us. I mean um you know it was all lawn when Dario lived here by himself. Um that changed when I arrived on the scene. When we had children we had to make areas for them. They had to have you know tree houses. They had a flying fox across the garden. Once once they’ve grown up, um then we could plant even more trees. So, are they gardeners? They they don’t have the means to to garden, but they are able to identify all the edible plants and trees wherever they are because they’ve grown up basically picking wherever they walk. Yeah. And it’s a different relationship you have, I think, with the landscape around you when you are looking through that lens. So, why not turn your backyard into an edible food forest? And the closer we could bring our food, the more that the rest of the land can go back to nature. I’ll show you the composting. Let’s go. What happens here is basically we are chopping and pruning little bits and pieces every few days. And that just gets taken down, dumped on there. We walk away. We come back again a few days and we build up these very airrated layers throughout the year and eventually it turns into that black gold which I use to establish any brand new bed or just top up the pots around the garden. Uh it’s I mean it’s cold composting so it takes four or 5 months before it’s ready but we don’t really need much more because we’re putting lays of mulch throughout the garden. Yeah. And as we’ve established, every bed is a compost tube. So, we only need a small amount. Everything is just here, right at your fingertips. That’s the focus. So, do you spend most of your days out here pottering around enjoying the space? Where’s your favorite spot to sit in your garden if you’re just enjoying yourself? And let’s put it this way, sitting doesn’t happen very often. Little bits of early garlic coming up. I asked you how many fruit trees, but how many varieties of plants or vegetables or things herbs do you have? Have you bothered counting those or is it just That’s kind of about 400. Um throughout the year it it changes every month. Yeah. So, you know, kind of there’ll be about um 8 to 10 varieties of peas climbing dwarf. Same for the beans in summer. Yeah. Things like that. There’s various um subtropical spinaches. There’s all sorts thing that you did about mapping the months out. I mean, that to me sounds like something that you would recommend everyone sit back and do when they’re starting. I actually think uh quite a few people do that because they have difficulty memorizing what to plant when. So, they tend to make up a little Excel chart of some kind, you know, month by month what they’re going to plant. It has to be looked at as a guideline only. WA landscape is vast and there’s there’s different climatic areas and even within this area you can build microclimates that mean everything changes and becomes better. I wonder whether this works for you too. But something that I watch is I I watch what’s selfseeding in the garden at the time, which then gives me an indicator. Go, ah, so if the mustard spines are coming up, then other things might like to also come up, too. Yeah, I’m I’m good at memorizing all the patterns in the garden over many decades. I use the plants that are coming up as indicators of when to plant more. Yes, the chart is good to get yourself planned to start, but then to move into that observation state of seeing what’s going on. Black sapote here. Yeah, these are all blueberries because we have very poor alkaline soil. Blueberries love acidic soils. Now, you can spend a fortune here creating a magnificent bed for your blueberries, and year after year, you’re going to be pouring more and more acidic soil into it to to dress it. It costs a fortune. So, this is a kind of cheap solution. It stabilizes the soil temperature to bury the pot. And this is really quite a large olive barrel. We filled it initially with uh acidic kind of rose aelia type soil mix. And all we need to do is just top it up a little bit every year and the plants are happy. There are pine trees nearby. We collect the pine needles and we place those on top usually as a mulch. That’s very clever. So, it’s right in the middle of all the other gun, but you’ve created a little unique habitat. And the lower temperatures uh being in the in this sunken pot really does make a difference in Perth because being such a hot place, this is a cold climate bush. Yeah. So, where’s north here in your garden? That way. Okay. Do you see this is lots of little sun traps in your garden? There are small sun traps. So this is the other thing that we have to manage with the trees just to make sure that the sun is getting through in the right places for half the year. Cherry trees are very hard to grow across the Perth plains. Um they’re they’re fine further south or up in the hills where where it’s kind of colder in the the winter. This particular tree came out a few years ago. It’s on a dwarf roottock, but what we found was it can’t cope with the summer sun. Hence the special structure just for this one tree to make sure that it survives through the summer. Oh, you’re so kind to your plants. Oh, macadamia, too. Yes, Dorio imported this tree from Queensland. This is the uh one of the original kind of Lismore. Yeah. Macadamia trees. He carried it around mainlands lovingly for a while and then when he moved here he planted it. Yeah. And it’s been here gosh um quite a long time now. Do you have any problems at all with things like psums or rats or you know like eating nuts and yeah rats is is a good one. Mention the word rats and you’ll hear the the shrieks across WA nowadays from gardeners because we’re all sick to death of them. In the last five or 6 years, the summers have become hotter and longer and the rats have exploded. Oh gosh. Wow. And they’re looking for food obviously and things are getting more harsh for them. So they and it’s getting drier and drier. M. So, um, yes, they they are really starting to attack fruit that 6 years ago, we never had a single rat attack any of our fruit. I noticed you’ve got lots of little um little ponds or bird baths or bee. Yeah. Yeah, that’s both for for the bees and the birds and whatever. They’re scattered all over the place. So, yeah. Lovely. I’ll just follow you around as you walk through some of the other bits cuz there’s so much in here. We’ve got star fruit behind you. So, it’s um it’s quite interesting to have the star fruit in winter. You you’d expect a subtropical tree like this to prefer summer, but um it seems quite happy giving us about three or four flushes of fruit and one during the winter, which makes um a great change from the general citrus. Now, in the past, some of the bananas that we had were old-fashioned full-sized four, five meter plants. And one of the things that we have downsized in recent times is to try and get a dwarf version of those banana varieties that we like. Yeah. And what’s this growing here? That’s a tobacco plant. It’s just ordinary tobacco. It’s a red red leaf variety. It just comes up where it wants. Yeah. And you got some some water plants here too, I’m seeing. So you’ve got some taro, some Kang Kong, and I know somewhere else you had bathtubs full of water chestnuts, too. There’s two dedicated tubs for water chestnuts cuz it makes it easier to harvest them. You just tip them up and empty them out or Yeah. Yeah. But there’s um there’s they’re also growing around the pond and we’ve got several ponds around the place because uh one of the uh the pest control creatures for us are frogs. Yes. So we we try to make habitats for those and also because we have so much bird life coming in here. Uh the ponds are also useful for them too. Something for everyone here. Something for everyone. So a lot of the citrus are down this side. Do you love cooking as much as you love growing? I I like trying to preserve in as many ways as possible everything that we have grown. And you’re documenting this, aren’t you? On your Yes. And and the only reason I do that is to share that kind of fun of of doing all these things of growing the plants and what to do with them. We have a Facebook gardening group called Ghetto’s Patch and Daria and I both have uh public Facebook accounts. Uh I catalog month by month everything that happens here in the way of growing food. He tends to stick to some of the things that are growing here and also any projects that he’s doing. So the albums go back years by month. Just so if you’re listening to this, I’ll link the links to those down below in the show notes. So you go and have a look and you can click on them and find out more. The fruit and vegetables that we grow here, that’s actually what makes things exciting and makes you want to cook um and makes you want to invent new things and try new things. This is it’s like an endless play group here. You know, I was had my hand on this and I noticed that you’ve got this bit of fencing here. So, finding whatever you found, you found a use for as well. Like there’s a there’s an old umbrella there that’s been used for things and just everywhere has things that are repurposed like a repurposing garden, too. There are local things all around us that can be repurposed into something useful for the garden rather than going out and spending a fortune buying them. And also, it’s all about recycling. It’s not a no work garden. It’s not a no cost garden, but it’s a sheer joy garden full of just something every day that you can come and harvest and eat from. And over here is um a blueberry area. So this is where we’ve got the the main lot of blueberries which at the moment are starting to go into dorcy. The more varieties you can get, the more they help pollinate each other. So you’ll increase the amount of fruit that you get. So diversity is the way to go. Also, the more varieties you have, the more you can space your harvest over the year. We get maybe 10, 11 months of fruit and just in case it gets too hot for them, we’ve got a structure above and we just slip a shade cloth over it or we can grow a vine over it. Even though it it’s kind of um free and easy here and it’s been done uh a bit at a time as we were able to when we were both working full-time, there has been thought that has been put into it. And Dario’s put a lot of design thought into all these structures. Every single piece has been thought about many times. Obviously, you got some rose hips here. Look at that. Yes. I I dry the the petals and I make rose hip tea and all that kind of thing. I make my own herbal medicines. I make herbal cosmetics, herbal teas, any anything, you know, herbal cleaners. I love herbs. The herbs are kind of scattered all around, so they they’re quite easily missed. But um you got some bitter melon up here. Do you eat it when it’s young or do you wait for the seeds? You you can actually eat the the red. It’s very gooey stuff. Interesting flavor, isn’t it? Yeah. But um they’re best eaten when they’re young and they’re an acquired taste because they are so bitter. But as long as you you understand to scrape the white pith out first and then slice them very finely and perhaps soak them in salted water, you’ll find they’re a lot more palatable. Thank you for that tip. I became addicted to them thanks to my neighbor who was growing this odd fruit that kept crawling over into our backyard. And I went around there and said, “What are they?” They presented them to me in various ways and made me taste them. And I just What culture of food? Uh from the seells. Ah, okay. So interesting to talk to people from different places and cultures. If you took someone from every different culture through your garden, you would hear different stories and different ways of producing. Oh my gosh, that’s actually the fun part about having groups of people through the garden because you you make very interesting friends and you hear amazing stories. Oh gosh, look at your figs up there. Yes. Going to be the very last figgy jam. Yes. Always. That’s that’s one of the standards I think for for a lot of people really. We can’t resist figs. I’ve been planting out some of these areas. Oh, so you got strawberries. I can see lots of strawberries starting to die back. There’s the monstera fruits. Oh, yes. Down there. How do you eat that? Put it in a paper bag um to let it ripen and just eat the parts where the um the outside the green parts have fallen off. I actually prefer just one small section to have split before I pick it. Right. So, that’s a good good guide. Lemon myrtle and oh tamarillo. Yep. Nersium. Yes. I I mean this is this is kind of uh the the great great great great granddaughter of the original plant. Now so you just keep taking cutings and cutting them. Just kind of keep propagating them and giving them away now. Um we’ve got the dragon fruits contained neatly. So how many different sorts of dragon fruits do you have? Uh there’s five. A little lot. There’s quite a few cutings that are given away throughout the year. We don’t really get a massive amount. So that’s creating its own little shelter here, too. Yes. You can see some of the water chestnuts dying down and the water crest, which is one of my favorite greens of all. It’s great, isn’t it? I’m about to harvest those now. They’re just starting to turn yellow. I’m just going to pull them out cuz there’s always some left behind. So, you don’t really have to do much work. You don’t you don’t you want to leave them behind, don’t you? That’s the whole point. We got the froggery. They’re still um most of the dragon fruits the other day. So, this will probably be the last. Still a green one there. Oh, yeah. Is this a ruby grapefruit? That’s Yeah. The the the new horror that uh we have in Western Australia now with the citrus is g wasp that’s running through everybody’s citrus at the moment and causing So, you’re just chopping them off, Dario. We solarize them. Ah, okay. Just tell me what you do with that. So, there’s there’s your ghoul wasp. All I do is isolate them and I put them in a jar. I cut them up and the sun cooks them, kills them. That’s it. So, you just got So, how often would you go around looking for the gore wasps? Whenever you’re walking around, they stand out like how do they say dogs? Yes. Right. I just wanted to ask you about here. So, you’ve got peanuts. Yes. What are they? Are they kumquats, chilies, pigeon peas? So, this whole area here is the the drying area or the Yes. because it’s warm and and sunny even in winter. And it’s kind of a a semi storage area as well. The macadamia, this is to stop the rats. People throw these away, we just collect them off the verge. All right. And the rats can’t get in. What else have you got in there? Pecans. Filing cabinet of treasures. Yeah. I said this is a grape vine. We use these uh olive barrels for brambleberries as well. Ah, poison mar and berry. As I think most people know, they’re quite invasive. Their roots will go everywhere. This keeps them contained. Fabulous. Where do you get these from? There are olive barrel importers and sometimes they’re willing to to give them away. How deep are they going? They they go very deep. A large hole is taken out of the center and a a large pot is put through so that uh there there’s even more depth. gives it a little bit of drainage and the roots just kind of go around and come up again and so it’s not invasive at all. Yeah, fabulous idea. So, how many have you got here? You got Marian Berry, Boenberry, Logan Berry, different sorts. Young berry, and a grape v one just to give them a little bit of shade in the summer because uh especially things like raspberries, they they hate the summertime, the summer sun. Here we’ve got a jabotic harbor tree. They’re amazing, aren’t they? The way they produce up their stem. See, this one fruited after about 6 years. It was, you know, it was reasonably early cuz I was told it was going to be 10 or 11 before. So, this is your front. This is the entrance. The driveway, as you can see, that gets shade from all the overhead structures as well in summer. We can grow grape vines and choco and passion fruits. Passion fruits and whatever we choose really. And you got another maringa out here too. And it’s got some drumsticks. Kind of standard maringa that you find in the nurseries. Yeah. And is that different from the one out the back? Yes, the the one out the back is the African moringa. It has a slightly different shaped leaf and a nuttier, slightly sweeter flavor throughout these beds. Uh artichokes just selfseed everywhere, but I do have set varieties which I leave alone. Um and I ensure I remember where they are so that I can still keep them. But uh it’s actually quite fun to see all the different variations. I’ve had buds of artichoke flowers that are half green and half purple and all sorts of weird wonderful combinations. You have a mental map of where everything is. I can remember what I’ve planted in the beds for about 5 years back. But, uh, if I’m really on the game, then I actually write some of them down in the book. Are these tomatoes self-seeding tomatoes or have you planted those? That that was actually a selfseeded one that was just over there and I moved it over there into the cage because I had grown a tomato there previously. A lot of people ask me too about things like companion planting, but really your garden is just one whole entire community of plants. Yeah, a companion planting is useful. This garden’s become a kind of freefor all. They make their own minds up who they want to associate with. Exactly. And I think that’s a really interesting thing, isn’t it? Like when you’re getting started, maybe it might help. for if you’ve got a sort of a monoulture farm and you’re wanting to add something, it might help. But once you get to this like it is a community, there’s yeah little friend groups. We have tried to copy nature, the way it operates and plants are random. They pick where they grow best. You know, they sew several seed. Some do better than others. Maybe two or three survive. That’s what we try and copy. And so you watch that to see where each of those things likes to thrive. And then you copy nature. Yes, that’s it. That’s the best lesson. Yeah, observation really. And we got what we got here? Ginger. This is another case of observation. Somehow accidentally, a ginger tuber ended up here. And I noticed that it was actually growing rather well. Ginger can be a bit temperamental in the Perth climate. This is their chosen spot. Their chosen spot. And I think that that’s one of the fundamental aspects of permaculture is observation. Exactly. Observe and interact. You see a tangello tree also has um a squash growing through it. So this is get osamin squash which was considered some kind of lost North American squash. I’d actually gave a heap away over over the years and I discovered a few months ago I only had one seed left. What’s its name again? Get a ooamin. So these are green grown out to get some more seeds. Yeah. And they can be eaten when they’re very young, like zucchini, or at full size when they’re actually bright orange as a squash. And they’re one of those winter squashes that can be kept for about 4 months. And I just saw up here these lovely structures that are here for covering plants. So, let me just stand back here. So, when we we have walks around, we’ve um we found golf balls and things like that, they’ve all been used utilized. So the these are the things that you’re saying you just throw the shade cloth over the top of these. I love them. It’s like garden sculpture with a purpose. One of Dario’s inventions. And he’s actually uh the the the central disc there. You can fit different lengths in there. He’s got a couple of lengths depending on whether the tree is small or clever. Clever. Ah. And some sugar cane behind you. Yes. The red sugar cane. You got white sugar cane and red sugar cane. This is a bell apple. A bell apple. I don’t know a bell apple. Vina here. There’s an avocado. Uh there’s a couple of grafts on there. Oh yes. I know the main one is H. It’s got fuerte, but uh there’s I think there’s meant to be a reed on there as well. So we’ve got Cavendish banana around here. And there’s a lily pill. Oh, you can see a bunch of bananas as well here. There’s about six of them around the the place. They’re all hiding. So lots of liyillies. Liyillies. I make liyilly champagne out of those. And then the tangelloo behind us here. Lilyilly champagne. How do you do that? I mean, everyone has liyillies on their liyilly hedges. Sugar, vinegar, fruit, and lemons. Lots of lily. Bung them in a bucket. Four lemons just cut into wedges. Throw them in. Throw in the sugar. Throw in a little bit of vinegar. Some water. Leave it for 2 weeks to ferment and then bottle it. That sounds easy. Yes, very easy. You can then drink it as a just an ordinary fizzy drink within a couple of weeks or you can leave it to mature and it’s you know like a elderflower champagne just a mild fizzy exciting little drink. So I’ve just noticed under here there’s lots of nesters growing. You’ve got little thing here for bees and frogs. There’s just something everywhere you look, isn’t there? It’s just beautiful. There’s different sorts of chilies. This has come come down to about four different types that are hardy through the winter time. And this one doesn’t really have a name. It was it was actually one of those ubiquitous Thai chilies that you find in all nurseries which change shape every year. And so you just keep taking cutings off that and replanting it out again or they’ll come to the type from seed. As long as I keep the other varieties far enough away from them, they’ll they’ll be fine. But I don’t really need to propagate this very often. It’ll it’ll last up to 5 or 6 years here if it’s really happy. So they’re short-term perennials really. Oh, we got a lo here. Pomegranates, pigeon peas. Look at the size of the pods. I mean, they’re really really quite substantial. What do your neighbors say about your garden? Do you have friends in your neighborhood? Yeah, we we give bananas and a few things to some of the neighbors and I I used to go down the street with a couple of baskets asking if they they wanted anything and I used to give eggs away to the neighbors when we had lots of chickens. I miss my chickens. Yeah. Yeah. They’re so aren’t they? What’s this tree here? Yeah, that’s desert lime tree. Very small limes. Um they’re made into very expensive condiments. They also make a a good powder to sprinkle over ice creams and curries and things like that. I wanted to ask you about this one here, the bell apple, because it’s also not something that I’m particularly familiar with. Right. The bell apple originates I love this from these countries like Indonesia. Yes. The size of the leaf kind of indicates to me it’s something from that part of the world. Now what happened was when Australia was joined onto the Asian continent, the this type of tree worked its way down into Australia and eventually of course Australia the the Australian continent drifted away. The continent became drier and the trees morphed into something slightly different and that was called a lilyilly tree. So they’re related. No way. Look at that. Such a different size leaf. What’s the size of the They’re about that big and like a liy sort of flavorish. And they are Barbie pink. Barbie pink. It’s a a mildly sweet, watery, crunchy fruit. And um in Asia, it’s often used with a condiment of soy sauce and chili and you dip it in there. They’re also very good um if you put them in the refrigerator for a while to cool down, it kind of enhances the flavor. Nice. And that also uh makes a great champagne because it it’s kind of similar to the lily. Oh, thank you for sharing that. And behind us here, there’s a grammar charmer. Now, I’ I’ve grown lots of grammar charas at my place, and I grow them because they’re kind of cherry-like, and I can’t get cherries where I am. How do they go here in WA? They’re they’re a bit temperament. They they don’t like the extreme summer conditions. Well, that’s why we’ve tried to hem it in. the uh the pllo was actually much larger and was giving them some shade. A bit of a balance with this because it actually likes quite a bit of sun here. Otherwise, it tends not to want to fruit. We have It’s an interesting experiment that you’re doing here. The garden tells you what to do next. Panama berry behind there. Oh, yeah. It’s a little strawberry tree, isn’t it? In the undergrowth. You can’t really see it from here. You can see it from from the driveway. There’s a chinato. That one’s an orange berry. So that is the smallest citrus berry in the world. And next next to that is the chinato. Never seen kinota growing. So there we go. That’s the Italians make a dessert with chinato. M they use the whole fruit and basically candy it. And when it comes to dessert, you could have it with ice cream or whatever, but you just have a single fruit with some of the syrup. And I must admit, it is absolutely delightful. And so just while I’m here, this is salt bush, isn’t it? Here. Yes. Yes. So that provides a useful hedge that’s very popular. We give that away as cutings a lot. Um that’s a myrtle berry. So common myrtle. Yep. Which um can be turned into drinks. And it’s also a juniper berry substitute. You can use the branches um for uh barbecues. You put it over meat, as many branches as you like, and it flavors the meat. Oh, so we got to find our way in here. So that’s a patanga and there’s a chinato. A very bitter fruit and it takes a few years before it starts producing fruit, but once it does, it’s pretty prolific. Yeah, look at that. You can keep it quite small. So that’s that’s pretty useful. And tell us about this one, the orange berry. Yeah, it’s just an unusual fruit. Again, it doesn’t like our winters, so the the leaves tend to to turn a bit yellow. The berries, they almost taste like marmalade. Well, that actually they they would be okay. The strange thing about this fruit, we’ve noticed all the roots we’ve had here that ladies seem to love it and often the men think it tastes revolting. So, there’s there’s something in there that um kind of the different taste buds. It’s really nice. It makes a nice little snack food and it it’s well here it’s it’s fruing basically throughout the year. We’ve got actually six grape vines. We used to have about nine. We’ve whittleled it back now to the ones that give us consistent fruit with the least amount of powdery mildew or any other problem. And also which give us an extended harvest from the earliest to the latest. And then do you take cutings of those and share them out with people? Yes. Yes. The fig trees are another popular cutting as well. You know, that is such an amazing thing to be able to share out all these herbs and the fruit trees and the perennial vegetables and all the different things that you’ve worked out work well here to say this is what works and here go and give it a try and pass it on. Well, I mean, you know, the things that we’re giving away, they are excess to us. I think most gardeners feel terrible if they have waste and most of us can’t kill a plant. No. And we can’t eat that much. So right from the front gate all the way to the back corner is just full of wonderful edible amazingness. Oh, cafe lime. Look at that. And trespasses will be compost. Oh, you have lots of fruit on there. All the leaves. I mean, as well, you go into a store, a couple of leaves will cost you several dollars. That’s the beauty of backyard gardening. I mean, you know, even on on the smallest property, you simply have to list the things that are expensive in the shops. Yeah. and then just grow them if you’re limited for space. What is this one here? That’s a tree mow. If you remember during co there was a a vast shortage of toilet paper and I made a little humorous post about all the different things that you could use in your garden instead of toilet paper. It it also has um kind of herbal properties. People know about the very common herbs, but most plants and trees have medicinal properties. Everything’s multifunctional. There’s like well over 30,000 varieties of things that are edible, but yet you know like it’s three plants that feed most of the world’s populations. You know, what is it like? Wheat, rice, maze. Yeah. That’s that’s not the way we were meant to live. No. You know, h humans are foragers. So, um, we are meant to be walking around picking something different every day from the sky, from the ground. And this particular perennial bath, that’s that’s basically grown because the bees love it and we want to keep the bees happy. We give a lot of cutings away of that as well because people uh nowadays often say, “I’m having problems with pollination in my garden. There aren’t any bees.” So the first thing we say is well unless somebody’s kind of spraying nearby pollinators. Well, it’s been an absolute delight walking around your garden with you. So this is the sign here, Jetto’s Patch. It’s an absolutely amazing garden. Thank you so much, Michelle, for just showing me. Thank you very much for coming. Yeah, it’s nice. It’s nice to share the garden passion and there there’s a lot of that here I can see. Obsessed. Don’t forget to look down below and you’ll find all the links to how to follow Michelle and Dario’s um blog posts and notes and lessons and insights. Thank you. Really, thank you. It’s just been amazing. Thank you. Well, thank you for joining me on that amazing tour. Leave me a note down below what inspired you. If you want to design a garden like this, check out the links to my courses. This is the kind of garden that we help you design. I’m so grateful to Michelle and Dario for opening their garden to me. Together, we’re building a world of abundance, care, resilience, wildness, and kindness, one garden at a time. Remember, subscribe, like, share, comment. Come back for some more tours coming up soon and check out our huge resource of garden tours and garden tips from our permaculture